# Project Runway October 28 2010: Finale Part 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732 "2010-10-29T02:56:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/41 "2010-10-30T05:41:02Z")
Well, i just watched the show, and that fucking sucked. After the runway show, my wife and i were convinced that it was going to be no contest, that Mondo would win in a canter. What the fuck were Michael and Nina thinking? Very disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/42 "2010-10-30T13:35:17Z")
> [@limegreen](#): > > As a jewelry designer, I was bored by Gretchen’s jewelry. It was one design, done over and over. It’s a V-shape. Not that special. Not special at all. I’m pretty sure you can buy that necklace anywhere that tourists gather. I have no problem with the biggest bitch in the world winning Project Runway, if the clothes are good. Gretchen’s collection was a bunch of granny panties, a couple of decent jackets, and a shitload of giraffe print pajamas. “Wearable” my ass. If that’s where fashion is going, I need to stock up on actual clothes while I still can. Oh, and Jessica Simpson; while I agree that she looked terrible, as someone who doesn’t know much about her besides “Is this chicken or tuna?” and that she makes some seriously cute shoes, I thought she came off pretty damned well. I mean, it’s an admittedly low bar, but she cleared it with air to spare. ---
**Author:** ![ripopgome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@ripopgome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ripopgome)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/43 "2010-10-30T14:56:47Z")
Ughhhh. So totally done with this show. Arbitrariness to the extreme this season, and overall, not much talent either. Mondo should have had it in the bag, Michael C. wasn’t the best but got robbed nonetheless, and Gretchen is straight to JCPenney. I’ve been a loyal watcher, but the last season-and-a-half have been less interesting. Here’s hoping that Tim Gunn does move onto bigger and better things and that I don’t give in to any desires to watching next season… fuck you, Project Runway. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/44 "2010-10-30T14:59:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I have no problem with the biggest bitch in the world winning Project Runway, if the clothes are good. See also: Irena ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/45 "2010-10-30T18:16:58Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Being from Portland, I’ve suffered through my life being surrounded by shapeless unironed brown lazy drab hippiechick wear. On behalf of the region, I truly apologize to the rest of the world for inflicting this upon you. That wasn’t Portland brown shapeless hippie wear, though. The colors and weight of the material was wrong. That was Arizona/New Mexico brown shapeless hippie wear. All it needed was turquoise beads mixed in with that jewelry (which I hated. I didn’t get it at all). Those clothes were awful. No matter what the judges were saying to justify their decision, most women couldn’t wear those clothes. Most women need to wear a bra (Jessica Simpson among them, no matter how much she said she’d buy some of that awful collection) - and a shirt with the back cut out above your shoulder blades or a neckline cut down to your bellybutton just doesn’t work for activewear separates. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/46 "2010-10-30T18:31:36Z")
Ugh, that was complete bullshit. Gretchen’s clothes were ugly drab pieces of crap that no one but hippie farm chicks would wear, and she is a such a whiny self-entitled bitch. The print she used was butt-ugly, the jewelry was stupid and several of her models looked like they forgot to put on pants. Mondo was completely robbed. It should have been the easiest decision in PR history, not the hardest. And WTF, when Gretchen hugged Mondo at the end it looked like she was wearing a black diaper under a see-through skirt. The fuck was that shit? Also, that as the lamest “reunion” ever. 15 minutes of lame clips that we’ve already seen of only the 3 finalists, and the one time the conversation starts to become interesting (about bitch Gretchen) it’s immediately shut down. Does that mean next week they are not having a real reunion show? ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/47 "2010-10-30T18:31:58Z")
Both Michael Kors (via Facebook) and Nina Garcia (via Twitter) are now trying to justify their decision…and failing, miserably. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/48 "2010-10-30T18:50:11Z")
LOL, They are selling all the looks from the final 3 collections [here](http://www.seenon.com/?v=sale_collection_project-runway_finale&icid=project-runway_finale), and every single one of Mondo’s looks have already sold out while only one of Gretchen’s is sold out (the final one that her main model was wearing.) Yeah, women sure want to wear her stuff… ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/49 "2010-10-30T19:42:25Z")
Somebody posted that sentiment on his Facebook wall > [@](#): > > **Jess C Scott** On the SeenOn Private Sale, Andy has sold 4/10, Gretchen = 1/10, while Mondo’s entire collection = sold out, 10/10. Regardless of your long list of amazing accomplishments as a fashion designer (NOT in a sarcastic tone / I mean that genuinely), you should give CREDIT where it’s due too, Mr. Kors (and I mean that genuinely too!). ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/50 "2010-10-31T07:58:50Z")
That was just plain wrong. :mad: I just do not get it…at all. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/51 "2010-10-31T13:30:37Z")
It’s interesting wading through all the comments over at Tom & Lorenzo. Theories are ranging from exactly what Nina said about being on trend to the bad economy = practical clothing to the producers pandering to Lifetime’s demographic and how, when PR was on Bravo, it attracted a much different audience. That said, I’m really beginning to feel for Gretchen in that, yes, she may have been portrayed a certain way and did herself no favors by letting herself be portrayed a certain way, but I honestly don’t think she deserves the vitriol that’s been spewing. Other designers deserve more of that vitriol than Gretchen. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/52 "2010-10-31T14:46:33Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > It’s interesting wading through all the comments over at Tom & Lorenzo. Theories are ranging from exactly what Nina said about being on trend to the bad economy = practical clothing to the producers pandering to Lifetime’s demographic and how, when PR was on Bravo, it attracted a much different audience. > > That said, I’m really beginning to feel for Gretchen in that, yes, she may have been portrayed a certain way and did herself no favors by letting herself be portrayed a certain way, but I honestly don’t think she deserves the vitriol that’s been spewing. Other designers deserve more of that vitriol than Gretchen. TLo’s commentaries are always very interesting and nearly always on point. I thought they nailed it on this one. Five days later and the decision still makes no sense. The problem with the finale is that they let the bitches have free reign during the season. Then they tamped it all down on the reunion show. All of a sudden everyone’s oh so nice. So you get a very boring reunion show filled with banal platitudes. Most of the final episode was a serious snoozefest until the last half an hour or so. Everything finally perked up when the judges showed up and had at it. Gretchen’s problem is that she was clearly trumped in the talent department by Mondo. Had she shown better clothing all would have been forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/53 "2010-10-31T16:05:30Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Gretchen’s problem is that she was clearly trumped in the talent department by Mondo. Had she shown better clothing all would have been forgiven. That’s in part why I think it was more half producer manipulation/half of Nina speaking the truth more than anything else. As much as I adore Mondo’s aesthetic, I know for a fact I probably would never wear the majority of his clothes. Oh, definitely a piece here or there, and definitely that adorable cut-out dress, but that’s it. Ditto Andy’s collection. Gretchen’s, OTOH, seems more in line with Lifetime’s demographic, and therefore, as with what Nina said about being able to _sell_ the clothes if she were a department store buyer. Her aesthetic may not be to everyone’s taste, but the lines and ease of it it, as well as the colors, are more appealing to the middle-of-the-road customer. Women of all shapes and sizes could actually wear many of her pieces. That isn’t true re Mondo and Andy’s. Gretchen’s collection wasn’t loud like Mondo’s. It wasn’t “out there” like Andy’s (and yes, I realize he toned down a lot for Fashion Week, but there was still enough of his vibe in there. I loved his collection, btw). What drove me nuts was how the judging kept flip-flopping all season. Are you rewarding a RTW collection or an actual couture collection? Is your collection for department stores or for high-end customers? MAKE UP YOUR MIND! ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/54 "2010-10-31T16:13:18Z")
The decision makes a lot more sense if you look at Michael Kors most recent collection, and note that he, too, sent granny panties down the runway. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/55 "2010-10-31T16:33:27Z")
When they spent all that time showing the judges debating between Gretchen and Mondo, I thought it was all just a lame attempt to create doubt in the viewers’ minds and build tension about the outcome, since it was so obvious that Mondo should win. Then Gretchen won! :eek: Mondo seems like a pretty humble guy, but I think even he was shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/56 "2010-10-31T19:31:37Z")
Count me in as another one outraged by this. Just rename the show Project Sears and be done with it. > [@lisacurl](#): > > I really didn’t appreciate Gretchen trying to spin the response to her personality as being affected by sexism because she’s just so direct. She’s anything BUT direct! That was the issue. If it’s sexist to criticize another woman for being a passive aggressive twat, sign me up. There weren’t enough rolleyes in the world when she made that comment. Seriously, people don’t dislike you because you’re female. They dislike you because you have no filter and no apparent idea of how hurtful your unwanted commentary is. When you appear to have no regard for other people’s feelings, it’s hard not to let those chickens come home to roost. > [@kiz](#): > > Gretchen’s, OTOH, seems more in line with Lifetime’s demographic, and therefore, as with what Nina said about being able to _sell_ the clothes if she were a department store buyer. Her aesthetic may not be to everyone’s taste, but the lines and ease of it it, as well as the colors, are more appealing to the middle-of-the-road customer. Women of all shapes and sizes could actually wear many of her pieces. That isn’t true re Mondo and Andy’s. If that’s truly what’s happened, that’s sad. Runway shows are intended to be aspirational, in the sense that you look at the clothes and (if you’re a regular woman) say that while you’d never wear them, you like \_\_\_\_\_ about them – color, cut, etc. Mondo did amazing things mixing prints and Andy had great silhouettes. Gretchen’s clothes, by contrast, weren’t aspirational at all. There was nothing about them that neded “translation” into regular wear, and as a result, her line was as boring as going shopping at the mall. So if they’ve decided that they’re no longer interested in fashion, and instead are just interested in ready to wear, fine. But then I’m not interested in watching. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/57 "2010-10-31T20:21:30Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > There weren’t enough rolleyes in the world when she made that comment. Seriously, people don’t dislike you because you’re female. They dislike you because you have no filter and no apparent idea of how hurtful your unwanted commentary is. When you appear to have no regard for other people’s feelings, it’s hard not to let those chickens come home to roost. Exactly. Her general point, that women tend to be called things like “bitch” in situations where men would simply be seen as forceful or opinionated, is valid. It happens quite often in politics. But it’s not always true, and if everyone thinks you’re a bitch, it might actually have something to with the way you’re acting. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/58 "2010-10-31T22:17:36Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > Just rename the show Project Sears and be done with it. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and say Macy’s or Lord & Taylor. Sears and JC Penney would probably do knockoffs. > [@](#): > > They dislike you because you have no filter and no apparent idea of how hurtful your unwanted commentary is. When you appear to have no regard for other people’s feelings, it’s hard not to let those chickens come home to roost. Exactly. I’ve known people like Gretchen. The fact that they possess no filter usually means they have absolutely NO IDEA of how they come across to others. If you tell them, they have NO IDEA what you mean. > [@](#): > > If that’s truly what’s happened, that’s sad. Runway shows are intended to be aspirational, in the sense that you look at the clothes and (if you’re a regular woman) say that while you’d never wear them, you like \_\_\_\_\_ about them – color, cut, etc. Mondo did amazing things mixing prints and Andy had great silhouettes. Gretchen’s clothes, by contrast, weren’t aspirational at all. There was nothing about them that neded “translation” into regular wear, and as a result, her line was as boring as going shopping at the mall. So if they’ve decided that they’re no longer interested in fashion, and instead are just interested in ready to wear, fine. But then I’m not interested in watching. I hope that’s not the case either, but if it is, it’s a sad commentary indeed as well as the demise of, IMO, one of the better reality shows. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/59 "2010-11-01T03:53:06Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > If that’s truly what’s happened, that’s sad. Runway shows are intended to be aspirational, in the sense that you look at the clothes and (if you’re a regular woman) say that while you’d never wear them, you like \_\_\_\_\_ about them – color, cut, etc. Mondo did amazing things mixing prints and Andy had great silhouettes. Exactly. Nobody expects what walks down the runway to go into the stores unchanged. The criticism of Mondo’s collection of not being ready to go into department stores as-is was beyond ridiculous. Much of Mondo’s collection was extremely wearable as-is and it’s very easy to see how Mondo’s collection could be translated into ready-to-wear clothes that normal (and even plus-sized) women could wear. Andy’s too. I would love to have a long skirt made of his beautiful fluttery layered gray silk. And it may just be me, but I don’t think Gretchen’s clothes could be worn by normal women as-is. (I’m not talking about the granny panties either.) It’s the kind of flowy stuff that would ONLY look good on a tall skinny chick with no tits. It would make the rest of us look frumpy and dumpy as can be. Hell, some of it even made the models look frumpy and dumpy. Making a runway model’s ass look wide and wobbly is a hell of an accomplishment–in a bad way. And like someone said above, you can’t wear a bra with most of it!!! That makes it unwearable for the vast majority of women. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/project-runway-october-28-2010-finale-part-2/558732/60 "2010-11-01T05:58:15Z")
Really? I’m the only one NOT surprised or dismayed? Andy was clearly out. His collection was just too tame and same-same. Everything was grey or green. And there were no stand out signature Andy WOW pieces. Mondo is great and I wanted him to win. But his stuff was a little too out there. And he completely ignored the commentary from the judges. Strangely, the pieces the judges loved (the giant squares, and the skeleton tee) were my LEAST favorite Mondo pieces. I did love the polka dot dress, and the subtle rainbow on back sequin top, and others. Gretchen started out a little too ready to wear, but she listened to the judges and restyled to make her wearable dresses more runway. The makeup, hats, hair, and jewelry really made them much more runway WOW, while still being actually within the range of marketable. Basically, Gretchen did a better job of making ready-to-wear into runway pieces than Mondo did of making runway pieces marketable. Plus… honestly, Gretchen needs the win more. Mondo is younger, and more celebrity, and so will have no trouble getting play. Gretchen is very marketable, but she needs the infrastructure, and the exposure. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > What normal woman wants to wear diapers, ugly drapes and jewelry crafted at the local preschool? They weren’t diapers, they were short shorts that made her pieces more runway. And the jewelry was fantastic. > [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I can’t believe Nina and Michael were acting like they warned Mondo again and again to tone it down after they gave him win after win throughout the season. No… they gave him him warnings about his pre-runway show. Which he completely ignored. They love his strong style, but I agree with them that he was going a little bit overboard for his runway show, and risking looking like a circus. While I love,love,love his polka dot dress, I agree, it could have been vastly improved by slimming the polka part just a tad, and editing some of the polka out of the sleeves. Just tweaking, but would have made a huge difference. [quote=“kiz, post:19, topic:558732”] > [@Time\_Stranger](#): > > I just don’t get the judging this season at all Yeah I didn’t get all the Michael wins. I have no idea whether he constructs will or not, and I did like the dress he came up with after making three different things he rejected, but in general, I felt a lot of his wins were candidates for bottom three. But this isn’t a new phenomenon. I remember some dress that won in a previous season, that Heidi said she would wear, that was basically a single piece of crumbled up fabric with a random dye stain on it. Tim did a :rolleyes: too and threatened to by the dress and make Heidi wear it. There’s always going to be right-on judgements, and WTF judgements. I also have to wonder how much influence the producers have, but I guess if they were overly influential, Casanova would have made it further. > [@peedin](#): > > So April got chewed out for sending layered grannie panties down the runway in the hat challenge, yet Gretchen gets the win with a collection that featured 3 looks of gps??? April’s granny panties were HORRIBLY constructed - they had multiple ,ayers abd were crinkly, leading them to really look like diapers. Gretchen’s fit well and enhanced her designs, making them look like short shorts. > [@peedin](#): > > As soon as she was announced as the winner, I said “I will never watch this show again” Who watches the show for the results? I watch for the creative designs. I often don’t agree with the judgements, but that just makes the show more interesting, because it creates more empathy for the designers. > [@limegreen](#): > > As a jewelry designer, I was bored by Gretchen’s jewelry. It was one design, done over and over. It’s a V-shape. Not that special. > Mondo said he had made all his own jewelry – not just designed, but actually made; and had hand-beaded that Day of the Dead skull. That’s wow factor talent. Seriously? All wedding bands and hoop earrings and bracelets are just a circle. Her design was dead on for her collection, giving it that southwestern feel. The chevrons are simple in of themselves, but they were put together in different arrangements and colors, and matched to their dresses. It’s called a motif. Gretchen had to have her jewelry actually forged, Mondo just strung together pre-made pieces. > [@lisacurl](#): > > (I really didn’t appreciate Gretchen trying to spin the response to her personality as being affected by sexism because she’s just so direct. She’s anything BUT direct! That was the issue. If it’s sexist to criticize another woman for being a passive aggressive twat, sign me up.) I suspect that a lot of Gretchen was in the editing. There were three episodes where they made her seem bitchy, but half of that was Michael, which was understandable. In general it seems she has no input or output filters. She just says what she’s thinking, and also, just experiences whatever happens to her in a raw way. > [@jacquilynne](#): > > I think generally when the judges critique things as ‘too ready-to-wear’ or ‘overly commercial’ they mostly mean ‘looks like things that are already in stores now’, whereas when they praise them as wearable, they mean ‘I could totally see myself wearing that’. […] I think, ultimately, Gretchen got the win because she listened to the judges in Finale Part 1 and did what she was told, while Mondo took all the advice he got from the judges, said ‘Screw that noise, I’m awesome the way I am’ and showed on the runway exactly what he’d showed in the previous episode. That’s pretty spot on! 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