# Prom dates and breaking promises. Warning: No Scotsmen present. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 26, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937 "2016-07-26T13:46:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/21 "2016-07-26T17:04:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How would Donna be a jerk in this case? She wants to hold Martha to a contract when she’s obviously in love/lust with Rose. This is how we get romance stores, and they never work out well for the Donna. She’s smart, she should know that. **Skald** , that’s why the terms of the agreement are questionable. Suppose your high school girlfriend shows up and wants you to divorce your wife so you can marry her as you promised you would on that hot steamy night when you would have promised anything to get to the next base. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/22 "2016-07-26T17:04:38Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Q: If there’s no Scotsman present, who ended up with the blue silk ribbon at the end of the night? 😕 > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t know what you mean. I was making a DOCTOR WHO joke. The Tenth Doctor was played by a Scotsman and had three major companions, Rose, Donna, and Martha. (But only Martha was beautiful, and she was also the smart one.) “Oh lad I don’t know where ya bin, but I see y’won First Prize!” **Spiderman** ’s reference is to a bar song called “The Sleeping Scotsman,” in which a drunken, kilt-clad Scotsman staggers towards home after dranking the night away but passes out under a tree. Two girls come along and decide to see if it’s true that men of Scotland wear nothing beneath their kilts beyond what God gave them. Having verified this truth, they decide to confound him by tying a blue silk hair ribbon around his member. When he awakes and needs to relieve himself, he’s surprised to see the blue ribbon, and the song ends with his address to his anatomy quoted above. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/23 "2016-07-26T17:08:34Z")
Wait a minute (emphasis added): > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The questio isn’t whether Donna should take the money. It is **"What is the ethical thing for Rose to do?**" What Donna should do is irrelevant. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > As you well know, I love you more than chocolate cheesecake with raspberries on top. But you’re answering the wrong question. The question is not what Donna should do; **it’s whehter Martha may ethically break the date**. Make up your mind, man. Is the question, “What is ethical for Rose to do?”, or “What is ethical for Martha to do?” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/24 "2016-07-26T17:17:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > She wants to hold Martha to a contract when she’s obviously in love/lust with Rose. This is how we get romance stores, and they never work out well for the Donna. She’s smart, she should know that. The quesion is not what Donna should do. There is obviously no upside for Donna in trying to force the issue. The question is _Is it ethical for Martha to break the date?_ It’s like I stated in thread in CS saying "“Was it ethical for Will Riker to sleep with female officers under his command, as he clearly seemed to be doing?” and you replied, “If Riker had accepted the promotion to captain he was offered early inthe series, he could have married Troi and taken her with him to his new ship.” > [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Wait a minute (emphasis added): > > Make up your mind, man. Is the question, “What is ethical for Rose to do?”, or “What is ethical for Martha to do?” Typo, sorry. The only ethics at issue are Martha’s. (And the OP is jokes that Rosd doesn’t have any ehtics in the first place.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/25 "2016-07-26T17:24:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > She wants to hold Martha to a contract when she’s obviously in love/lust with Rose. This is how we get romance stores, and they never work out well for the Donna. She’s smart, she should know that. Of course she should hold her to a contract she agreed to. Just because someone is in love/lust with someone doesn’t mean they are not jerks for breaking a previously agreed upon contract. > [@](#): > > **Skald** , that’s why the terms of the agreement are questionable. Suppose your high school girlfriend shows up and wants you to divorce your wife so you can marry her as you promised you would on that hot steamy night when you would have promised anything to get to the next base. That’s why you don’t make that promise, and yes, you would be a jerk to break it. Or you could NOT be a jerk and pray for the end of time to hurry up and arrive. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/26 "2016-07-26T17:29:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > T > The question is _Is it ethical for Martha to break the date?_ Based on the evidence at hand, in my judgement, the agreement is unethical, ergo it is not unethical for Martha to break the date. She still owes Donna something for the help. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/27 "2016-07-26T17:35:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Typo, sorry. The only ethics at issue are Martha’s. (And the OP is jokes that Rosd doesn’t have any ehtics in the first place.) If I were Martha, I would try to negotiate with Donna, to see if she would accept an alternative form of compensation (read: money). If she will not, the ethical thing for Martha to do is keep her word. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/28 "2016-07-26T17:45:54Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > If I were Martha, I would try to negotiate with Donna, to see if she would accept an alternative form of compensation (read: money). If she will not, the ethical thing for Martha to do is keep her word. Should Buttercup have married Humperdinck because it was the ethical thing for her to do? ---
**Author:** ![jayrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jayrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrey)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/29 "2016-07-26T17:51:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > As you well know, I love you more than chocolate cheesecake with raspberries on top. But you’re answering the wrong question. The question is not what Donna should do; it’s whehter Martha may ethically break the date. My apologies, dear heart. I did not make myself clear. No, Martha may not ethically break the date. While I’m glad (I guess) that Martha’s found someone to get all hot and bothered with now, a promise is a promise. The fact that Rose would pay Donna for her time is irrelevant. Martha and Donna had an agreement and Donna fulfilled her part of the bargain. It’s now time for Martha to gracefully, and competely, fulfill hers. Commitment is doing what you said you’d do even when you don’t feel like doing it anymore. (And I love you, too, more than baklava, which means A LOT!) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/30 "2016-07-26T17:54:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Based on the evidence at hand, in my judgement, the agreement is unethical, ergo it is not unethical for Martha to break the date. She still owes Donna something for the help. I’m still not seeing the unethical aspect, but okay. Let’s flip it, though. Imagine that Martha had had the money to pay Donna all along, so the prom date was never an issue. Instead the girls agree that Donna will devote her Thursday nights to turoing Martha, who pays a premium on Donna’s usual fee for guaranteed acccess This time, it’s Donna who meets Rose, who finds her geekiness endearing. Rose invites Martha to a speical showing of the DOCTOR WHO 50th anniversary special being played at a local theatre on a certain Thursday night. Martha has a big test the next day and really needs the help. Is it ethical for Donna to blow her off? > [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s why you don’t make that promise, and yes, you would be a jerk to break it. Or you could NOT be a jerk and pray for the end of time to hurry up and arrive. 🙂 You monster! When the end of time comes, there are three knocksk the Doctor is forced to sacrificed himself to save Wilf, and MARTHA ENDS UP MARRIED TO MICKEY!! No one deserves being married to that elish bastard. Those at least Donna ends up with lottery millions, and Rose is locked off n another universe where she can’t hurt anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/31 "2016-07-26T17:58:24Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > My apologies, dear heart. I did not make myself clear. No, Martha may not ethically break the date. While I’m glad (I guess) that Martha’s found someone to get all hot and bothered with now, a promise is a promise. The fact that Rose would pay Donna for her time is irrelevant. Martha and Donna had an agreement and Donna fulfilled her part of the bargain. It’s now time for Martha to gracefully, and competely, fulfill hers. Commitment is doing what you said you’d do even when you don’t feel like doing it anymore. > > (And I love you, too, more than baklava, which means A LOT!) So we’re clear, the tiramisu I just send you by pastry cannon was fired BEFORE I read the above. Also, baklava is chick food. ---
**Author:** ![jayrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jayrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrey)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/32 "2016-07-26T18:11:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So we’re clear, the tiramisu I just send you by pastry cannon was fired BEFORE I read the above. > > Also, baklava is chick food. What part did you object to, me saying Martha should keep her promise or that I love you more than baklava? As for baklava being “chick food,” since I’m a chick, as you well know, I take no offense. And, thanks for the tiramisu. It is delish. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/33 "2016-07-26T18:17:52Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > What part did you object to, me saying Martha should keep her promise or that I love you more than baklava? I don’t object to anything. I just wanted to establish that the tiramisu was given out of AFFECTION, not because you agreed with me. Bribes are for elves. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/34 "2016-07-26T18:19:09Z")
Only acceptable way to break the prom date is to pay for all the tutoring she received. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/35 "2016-07-26T18:33:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Only acceptable way to break the prom date is to pay for all the tutoring she received. I’m not sure whether you mean that Martha may unilaterally break the as long as she comes up with the money first (or at the same time) and stlll be behaving ethically,or that she must get Donna to agree as well (and of course still pay). I would point out that Donna was tutoring as much as she was with a specific purpose: she wanted to buy a car. She accomplished that anyway by taking on additional paying clients. What Martha has cost her was her leisure time. She didn’t get to see SUPERMAN VS BATMAN on opening note, or to play WORLD OF WARCRAFT all Easter weeend with her nerd buddies; or binge on ORPHAN BLACK as much as she’d like. And she had to waste time making a prom dress she would not otherwise have bothered with. How does Martha compensate her for that? ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/36 "2016-07-26T18:33:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Should Buttercup have married Humperdinck because it was the ethical thing for her to do? As I understand that story, she did not give agree to marry Humperdink, so much as she was betrothed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/37 "2016-07-26T18:34:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Should Buttercup have married Humperdinck because it was the ethical thing for her to do? Humperdinck breached the implied covenant of good faith that accompanies every contract when he hired Vezzini to murder Buttercup and start a war with Florin. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/38 "2016-07-26T18:40:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m still not seeing the unethical aspect, but okay. Let’s flip it, though. > > Imagine that Martha had had the money to pay Donna all along, so the prom date was never an issue. Instead the girls agree that Donna will devote her Thursday nights to turoing Martha, who pays a premium on Donna’s usual fee for guaranteed acccess This time, it’s Donna who meets Rose, who finds her geekiness endearing. Rose invites Martha to a speical showing of the DOCTOR WHO 50th anniversary special being played at a local theatre on a certain Thursday night. Martha has a big test the next day and really needs the help. Is it ethical for Donna to blow her off? I assume you mean Rose invites Donna to the Dr. Who show. It’s unethical for Donna to run out on Martha. It’s a straight up exchange of money for services, she isn’t following through. Why Donna doesn’t fulfill her obligation doesn’t matter, it’s no different than if she went to tutor someone else for more money than Martha was paying. Legally, Martha could sue her for the one night of tutoring lost, and possibly for all the nights since the crucial final night of tutoring was not provided. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/39 "2016-07-26T18:42:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Humperdinck breached the implied covenant of good faith that accompanies every contract when he hired Vezzini to murder Buttercup and start a war with Florin. What if Humperdinck hadn’t done that. Should Buttercup still have married Humpy if she found out Westley was still alive? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937/40 "2016-07-26T18:47:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s unethical for Donna to run out on Martha. It’s a straight up exchange of money for services, she isn’t following through. I don’t understand how you say this, when in the exact same scenario in the OP, you say it’s NOT unethical for Martha to run out on Donna 😕😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prom-dates-and-breaking-promises-warning-no-scotsmen-present/760937.md?page=3)