# Prometheus discussion with open spoilers \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755 "2012-06-01T09:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/301 "2012-06-13T02:40:44Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Just got back from seeing it in IMAX (which was amazing, and I’m not usually a huge fan of said). > > I noticed the things that people here are complaining about (plot holes, implausible characterizations, etc.), and for most movies those sorts of things would be fatal, but in this case it actually FEELS like nit-picking. It was an incredible, visceral movie-going experience, and it’s a little hard for me to grok how someone could sit there stewing about a character running the wrong way or failing to relay information. Yeah, it’s fucking weird that (for instance) a bunch of scientists would be angry or uninterested about being on a planet with dead aliens on it, but I didn’t care. (Compare this to _Avatar_, which had comparable problems, but was not good enough to keep me from caring.) Yes. Fucking ditto. It reminds me of the reception of the entirely too good of a movie for its hardcore fanbase that Star Trek got. Also, in my view, a way better movie than should have been possible. I thought the summer was going to be downhill after Avengers. I was pleasantly surprised at how fun of an experience Prometheus was. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/302 "2012-06-13T02:42:54Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly the kind of fanwanking I’m talking about. > > And most of the nitpicks about Prometheus could be just as easily fanwanked away. Horseshit. Okay, wank-master. Explain to me how the utterly stupid black goo, alien plan and inept humans was actually part of a good story. I await your gilding of this turd. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/303 "2012-06-13T02:44:07Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly the kind of fanwanking I’m talking about. > > And most of the nitpicks about Prometheus could be just as easily fanwanked away. I know you’re just addressing somebody else, but this isn’t really germane to the conversation. You have one example of sloppy writing or a missing scene for Alien. This thread is full of things that made no sense for Prometheus. Even if drawing an equivalence between Alien and Prometheus meant our issues were baseless (and it doesn’t), you still aren’t even close to the same magnitude of issues. In my opinion, Prometheus has serious plotting, character, and writing issues. All the problems in other movies doesn’t change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/304 "2012-06-13T02:47:13Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > That could be used in the sequel, though. Perhaps David read the sleeping alien’s mind and knows exactly what they were up to (but is keeping that information from Shaw). Perhaps David would like to see the end of humanity. He seems pretty disdainful of them. Yeah, because this movie really needed to hold _more_ information back for a potential sequel. If the filmmakers deliberately made a movie full of plot holes and characters behaving in ways that didn’t make sense because they hoped this would cause people to shell out for the sequel then I feel even worse about wasting my $8 on _Prometheus_ than I would if the many, many problems with the story were due merely to bad writing/editing. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/305 "2012-06-13T02:53:11Z")
I went with a friend and he kept referring to the “engineers” that way and I got it stuck in my head. I really wanted to like this movie but once they took off their helmets the characters started acting like the victims in an 80s teen slasher film. Reading through this thread, I realized I must be a Comic Book Guy because I don’t love this film and think it has some serious flaws. When I first saw Blade Runner I wasn’t too impressed. I felt it moved too slow and that it needed more action. But I didn’t think it was a stupid film or that the characters were morons or that it had bad dialogue. I later watched the Final Cut and it became of my favorite movies. And yet Blade Runner, as it was released in theaters WAS a flawed film. It had the horrible voiceover and a happy ending. People started appreciating it when the Director’s Cut came out that erased the narration and had a different ending that completely changed the way the film was viewed. Maybe when we get the Director’s Cut of Prometheus it will be on par with Blade Runner. When I first saw Alien I thought it was genuinely terrifying and one of the best SF/Horror movies ever. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/306 "2012-06-13T03:10:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Horseshit. > > Okay, wank-master. Explain to me how the utterly stupid black goo, alien plan and inept humans was actually part of a good story. > > I await your gilding of this turd. I think **Miller** has already made a good start on addressing your issues. Give it a few more years of kicking it around on message boards, and I’m sure it will all be worked out (or at least be the subject of multiple competing theories). Of course, to get to that point we all may have to see the movie a few more times, which I’m sure is what Ridley has in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/307 "2012-06-13T03:43:22Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I think **Miller** has already made a good start on addressing your issues. Give it a few more years of kicking it around on message boards, and I’m sure it will all be worked out (or at least be the subject of multiple competing theories). Of course, to get to that point we all may have to see the movie a few more times, which I’m sure is what Ridley has in mind. Well I can’t argue with a true believer. I’m glad you liked the film. Life must be wonderful for those with standards so low. 😃 I’ll just be over here, expecting competence from my screenwriters. Domo. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/308 "2012-06-13T03:48:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Well I can’t argue with a true believer. I’m glad you liked the film. Life must be wonderful for those with standards so low. 😃 And life must be really disappointing for, well, [these guys](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/309 "2012-06-13T03:55:15Z")
Stop it. I want to hear people talking about why they did or did not like the film, complete with nitpicky overanalysis of both sides, including comparisons to better and worse movies and possible discussions of how much Lost sucks. (Because I never get enough of that.) Those things are interesting. What is not interesting is people saying that it is a violation of the laws of physics to [like/not like] this movie because of [Comic Book Guy reference/film reviews from 30 years ago/your mom]. (The quantitatively correct answer, by the way, is that Lost sucks more than a black-hole-powered Electrolux.) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/310 "2012-06-13T03:55:53Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > And life must be really disappointing for, well, [these guys](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y). 😛 I’ll have you know, I don’t wear a beard. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/311 "2012-06-13T04:05:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll have you know, I don’t wear a beard. Was Roger Ebert once a Comic Book Guy because he didn’t like Blade Runner or Alien but shed this stereotype once he gave Prometheus 4 stars? I always thought it was a good thing to be able to articulate WHY you liked or disliked a film. ---
**Author:** ![Rhaegar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Rhaegar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhaegar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/312 "2012-06-13T05:16:30Z")
I didn’t think that Prometheus was all that good, although it is probably better than the Aliens films after #2. If I had to rank them, I would say #1 Aliens, #2 Alien, and #3 Prometheus. There were frankly many plot holes in Prometheus, although the special effects were cool and Charlize Theron was easy on the eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/313 "2012-06-13T05:27:56Z")
Can anyone answer my question? Why did David intentionally infect the archaeologist, who ended up impregnating Shaw? I missed the reason for that. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/314 "2012-06-13T05:48:31Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly the kind of fanwanking I’m talking about. > > And most of the nitpicks about Prometheus could be just as easily fanwanked away. I’m all ears. I’d love to hear your explanation for some of the major issues people have presented. So far, you’ve just dismissed them as nitpickery. I can accept that movie monsters are strange and mysterious. I _mentioned_ the fact that the alien squid grows quite large, but like you I regard that as a minor detail. Conservation of Monster-Mass is not important. But the _humans_ in the movies need to act like actual humans. They need to have believable motivations and reasonable reactions to events that transpire. They need to take actions that make sense from _some_ perspective. They need to be consistent, unless we can see a reason for their inconsistency. _Prometheus_ fails pretty hard on all of those fronts with a wide variety of characters. _That’s_ the problem with it, not some piddly stuff about how many light years they are away from somewhere or how the alien found time for afternoon tea. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/315 "2012-06-13T06:46:55Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Was Roger Ebert once a Comic Book Guy because he didn’t like Blade Runner or Alien but shed this stereotype once he gave Prometheus 4 stars? > > I always thought it was a good thing to be able to articulate WHY you liked or disliked a film. You’re wrong about Ebert disliking _Blade Runner_. He didn’t dislike it; he just didn’t think it was great. In fact, he gave it 3/5 stars. Here, I’ll give you the most damning sentence in the entire original review: [ > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > “Blade Runner” is a stunningly interesting visual achievement, but a failure as a story. ]([http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19820602/REVIEWS/40819003/1023](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19820602/REVIEWS/40819003/1023)) When you read the full review and can see that sentence in context, you’ll see that he’s not saying the film is a failure at all, just that the director fails to deliver as engaging a story as the setting he provides. > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > Ford says he originally signed on for “Blade Runner” because he found such questions intriguing. For director Ridley Scott, however the greater challenge seemed to be creating that future world. Scott is a master of production design, of imagining other worlds of the future (“Alien”) and the past (“The Duellists”). > > He seems more concerned with creating his film worlds than populating them with plausible characters, and that’s the trouble this time. “Blade Runner” is a stunningly interesting visual achievement, but a failure as a story. To some degree he echoed that when he saw the Director’s Cut, which he gave 4/5 stars. He wrote: [ > [@](#): > > Seeing the movie again, even in this revised version, I still felt the human story did not measure up to the special effects. ]([http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F19820101%2FREVIEWS%2F201010306%2F1023&AID1=%2F19820101%2FREVIEWS%2F201010306%2F1023&AID2=](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F19820101%2FREVIEWS%2F201010306%2F1023&AID1=%2F19820101%2FREVIEWS%2F201010306%2F1023&AID2=)) Please drop the fiction that Roger Ebert thought _Blade Runner_ was “stupid” or didn’t like it or thought it was a terrible movie that wasn’t worth watching. The man’s own words don’t back up that position. If anything, they back up the position that so many of us have about this film, _Prometheus_: Ridley Scott is great at providing amazing things for us to look at, but not always great at providing us with viable characters or plots. In his review of _Alien_, Ebert brings up something Ridley Scott did well, and notes the pitfall that many directors would have succumbed to (and which Scott fell victim to with _Prometheus_): [ > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > One of the great strengths of “Alien” is its pacing. It takes its time. It waits. It allows silences (the majestic opening shots are underscored by Jerry Goldsmith with scarcely audible, far-off metallic chatterings). It suggests the enormity of the crew’s discovery by building up to it with small steps: The interception of a signal (is it a warning or an SOS?). The descent to the extraterrestrial surface. The bitching by Brett and Parker, who are concerned only about collecting their shares. The masterstroke of the surface murk through which the crew members move, their helmet lights hardly penetrating the soup. The shadowy outline of the alien ship. The sight of the alien pilot, frozen in his command chair. The enormity of the discovery inside the ship (“It’s full of … leathery eggs …”). > > A recent version of this story would have hurtled toward the part where the alien jumps on the crew members. Today’s slasher movies, in the sci-fi genre and elsewhere, are all pay-off and no buildup. ]([http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031026/REVIEWS08/310260301/1023](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031026/REVIEWS08/310260301/1023)) _Prometheus_ didn’t just hurtle towards the slashing stuff, it hit turbo and burned through the NOS to get there. That killed any tension, any suspense, any sense of wonder at what _might_ happen and at what the crew (and us, the audience) were seeing and discovering. Note that Ebert’s _Alien_ review is almost 20 years old, but the same problem still exists with regard to suspense/horror movies: the director is often in too much of a hurry to get to the payoff. It’s the same in music, that a resolve is more powerful when it’s slowly built up to. An orgasm all by itself is nifty, but it’s best when it’s preceded by a lot of hot sex. _Prometheus_ failed to deliver in that aspect. I don’t think you’ll see this kind of thing being written about _Prometheus_: > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > The result is a film that absorbs us in a mission before it involves us in an adventure, and that consistently engages the alien with curiosity and logic, instead of simply firing at it. Scott failed to rein himself in this time around and it’s a detriment to the film. By the way, in his review of _Alien_, Ebert had this to say: > [@Roger Ebert](#): > > Much of the credit for “Alien” must go to director Ridley Scott, who had made only one major film before this, the cerebral, elegant “The Duelists” (1977). **His next film would be another intelligent, visionary sci-fi epic, “Blade Runner” (1982)**. Please drop the fiction that Roger Ebert didn’t like these movies. You and anyone else saying so are simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Einsatzgroping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Einsatzgroping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einsatzgroping)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/316 "2012-06-13T07:03:15Z")
Promethues has to be one of the most insultingly garbage films I’ve ever had the displeasure of enduring. The two emotions I felt while watching this dumbed down sci-fi for Gen Haltwit were laughter and the earge to evacuate my bowels. Normally I’d dismiss such an abject schlock as straight-to-video refuse that should be wiped from one’s memory bank. But given this was one of, if not _thee_ most anticipated film of the year, with a huge budget, a seminal license, directed by the progenitor of _Alien_ and _Blade Runner_… it blows my mind that a flim so base in its myriad idiotic aspects could be earnestly forwarded to audiences as a legitimate piece of entertainment. What’s even more frustrating is that this visual / aural diarrhoea is actually getting a some critical acclaim… WTF!? Has the world gone mad? Or retarded, perhaps? :dubious: Some (likely shills or industry plants) have even stooped as low as to liken the laugably spoon fed, ‘My First Philiosophy Book’ existentialism in the film to _2001: A Sapce Odessey_ and _Blade Runner_… :smack: I’d go as far as to say, that if one enjoyed this film on any level other than, _maybe_, the CG effects or Fassbender’s admirable performance while working with a script semingly written by a high meth user or that stirring “international” trailer, they should consider chemically castrating themselves. For, the level of stupidity one must descend to in order to enjoy Prometheus, is a depth no **self-respecting** human being could ever contemplate. R.I.P. sci-fi cinema. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/317 "2012-06-13T07:31:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Please drop the fiction that Roger Ebert thought _Blade Runner_ was “stupid” or didn’t like it or thought it was a terrible movie that wasn’t worth watching. The man’s own words don’t back up that position. > Please drop the fiction that Roger Ebert didn’t like these movies. You and anyone else saying so are simply wrong. Consider the fiction dropped. I just assumed he disliked it based off of Spokes “Ebert called it 'basically just an intergalactic haunted house thriller set inside a spaceship.” ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/318 "2012-06-13T07:50:38Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can anyone answer my question? > > Why did David intentionally infect the archaeologist, who ended up impregnating Shaw? I missed the reason for that. [Clip of their conversation](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiIgAXzHhJs) It seems that his callousness towards David didn’t help matters; even though he’s said to be unfeeling, David seems genuinely hurt. As for the real reason; David seems curious to a fault. The fact that he’s immune to most biological misery (short of getting decapitated) won’t have helped matters. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/319 "2012-06-13T08:00:02Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Can anyone answer my question? > > Why did David intentionally infect the archaeologist, who ended up impregnating Shaw? I missed the reason for that. Orders from the sleeping Weyland - with the Engineers apparently dead, I think Weyland was anxious to speed up the process of finding his imagined miracle cure, and hoped that the black goo would do the trick. He ordered David to expose someone in the crew to it, just to see what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755/320 "2012-06-13T08:17:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Orders from the sleeping Weyland - with the Engineers apparently dead, I think Weyland was anxious to speed up the process of finding his imagined miracle cure, and hoped that the black goo would do the trick. He ordered David to expose someone in the crew to it, just to see what would happen. So sleeping Weyland has lucid dreams now where he can receive info and give orders? What I really want to know is what was in Charley’s eye. I bet it was a super-sperm hepped up on crude oil that took a wrong turn somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prometheus-discussion-with-open-spoilers-edited-title/623755.md?page=17)