Which is funny, since I’m not an Easterner anymore. (And the rodeo here in San Diego is one of the best in the country, I’m told.)
Esprix
I shouldn’t get so far off track, but how much are you really free to thumb your nose at the SBC? Sure, an SBC congregation could decide that it’s okay to have women as senior pastors, or that infant baptism is Biblically sound, but what are the chances that the local/state/national convention wouldn’t throw them out if they caught wind of it?
What if an individual in an SBC church decides that they believe that Biblically, salvation is not an event but a process, and that there’s no specific transforming moment of salvation. Would most SBC congregations still accept them as a member in good standing? If they did still accept them as a member, how many other people would they have “praying for” that person?
The SBC is not a hierarchy, but how far is priesthood of the believer extended anymore?
As to women as pastors, very unlikely. Plenty of Baptist churches have associate pastors who are women (mine included). Women senior pastors are admittedly rarer, but I daresay Baptists aren’t alone in that department. Many older traditionalists in addition to fundamentalists would probably have heartburn from this one, but I haven’t heard of any congregation being “disfellowshipped” for a woman pastor. State conventions are entirely separate organizations from the national convention; some are fundamentalist-controlled (Missouri, Alabama) some aren’t (Texas, North Carolina). As to infant baptism, well, if you believe in that, would be silly to join a Baptist church. Sort of like visiting Krispy Kreme in order to loudly proclaim that you don’t believe in donuts. Now, one issue that local conventions and the national convention have given churches the boot over is the blessing of gay union ceremonies. A church here in Raleigh, NC was expelled a few years back for that (but only, imho, because they did so in an extremely public and in-your-face manner)
No problem…people who believe you have to walk the aisle and be baptized in order to be saved misunderstand Baptist theology. I don’t think even fundamentalists believe the Baptism is the transforming moment of salvation. The transforming moment of salvation (and as far as I know this is pretty much the standard for most of mainstream Christianity) is when you accept Christ as your savior, which can be and often is an entirely private moment. The walking the aisle and baptism part is nothing more than the public demonstration of this private decision (and yes, if you want to be a member of a Baptist church, you have to make this public demonstration…but I don’t think you will find many knowledgeable Baptists who would disagree that you can become a Christian without being baptized).
And, by the way, a congregation self-identifies as an “SBC congregation”. The Southern Baptist Convention doesn’t directly own or control (in the secular legal sense) a single church in the United States that I’m aware (except perhaps for a few mission or planted churches where they go in and rent or buy the facility and try to organize a congregation in that space)
I’m not aware of any congregations being disfellowshipped for a woman pastor either, but it seems that many congregations are much more okay with women as associate pastors rather than senior pastors. I’ve belonged to SBC churches which had women in the role of associate pastor or an equivalent role, but it seemed like the line between acceptable and unacceptable pastoral roles for women was often drawn at associate pastor/senior pastor.
My apologies for mixing up the two.
But what if you already belong to a Baptist church and eventually come to the belief that infant baptism is acceptable? Must you leave the church?
I know – I specifically don’t want to bring up this as an example of a possibly divisive issue, if that’s okay?
On the contrary, I should be speaking of those who believe that there is a transforming moment of salvation at all – whether it be baptism (which doesn’t appear to be a mainstream SB belief anyway) or a moment of accepting Christ as one’s savior. What if one believes that instead of the moment of salvation when one accepts Christ, that salvation comes through growing to be more Christ-like as one matures on their walk with Christ and there really is no transforming moment of accepting Christ?
I’m in agreement here with this appearing to be standard Baptist belief, although I’m not horribly knowledgeable on standard Baptist belief.
Can a church then identify as Southern Baptist without at least being united with a local or state convention which identifies with the greater Southern Baptist Convention? Does it have to do at all with Cooperative Program giving?
I think you can believe anything you want. If you wanted to baptize YOUR infant in a Baptist church, and have the church agree that this Baptism represented the child’s salvation no matter what happened later, then you’d have to go elsewhere, since rejection of infant baptism is a theological cornerstone of Baptist belief. I have seen Baptist churches baptize children as young as around six. I think the dividing line for Baptists is the ability to ask Christ to be your savior of your own “free will” (yeah, I know, free will for six year olds is a little dicey, but at least they haven’t been physically carried to the baptismal water…)
I think that is actually what happens in the majority of cases. But at some point, you either have to opt in or opt out, right? I mean, you either accept that Christ died for redemptive propitiation (how’s that for a theological phrase?) or you don’t…coming to that point might take a lifetime (and conforming your life to the implications of that decision also generally takes a lifetime after the decision is made), but there is at some point a “fork in the road” is there not? The maturation comes after the “birth” so to speak… I don’t think Baptists are alone among Protestants in believing in a defining moment of choice like that, but I’m no theologian…
I am pretty sure you belong to local, state, or National groups entirely separately. I know I receive newsletters and other stuff from the Raleigh Baptist Association (my local association) and the Baptist State Convention entirely separate from the National convention. As for affiliation, I’m not sure as to the exact process, the state or local affiliation might require you support them with some money. I don’t think you have to donate to the CP in order to be a Southern Baptist Church, and even if you do, I think it could be a token amount.