# Pronounciations that grate: Is it because I'm old? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645 "2012-06-19T14:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/41 "2012-06-19T22:04:08Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > By “all of a sudden”, do you mean “since the dawn of language”? Well, since the dawn of _Star Trek: TOS_, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/42 "2012-06-19T22:09:03Z")
The one that drives me flippy is the current vogue for pronouncing “negotiate” as ne-go-SEE-ate. NPR’s broadcasts are full of it (ba-dum-ching!). I always want to shriek, and sometimes do shriek, “Ne-go-SHE-ate, you ash-holes!”. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/43 "2012-06-19T22:13:56Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > The one that drives me flippy is the current vogue for pronouncing “negotiate” as ne-go-SEE-ate. NPR’s broadcasts are full of it (ba-dum-ching!). > > I always want to shriek, and sometimes do shriek, “Ne-go-SHE-ate, you ash-holes!”. Ne-go-see-ate is the British pronunciation, almost as grating to my ear as “tissue” and “issue” with an S sound instead of an SH sound. Or shedule instead of schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/44 "2012-06-19T22:24:36Z")
“Real-a-tor” “PROH-grum” for _program_ (much of like the “robit” example). To a certain extent, this does seem to be standard American media-speak, which is said to be closest to a slightly-upper Midwestern accent (e.g. Indiana or Illinois but not too far north, thus excluding greater Chicago and points north. “Tear”, “air”, “mere” for _terror_, _error_, _mirror_. Admittedly, the last one seems questionable, but I hold to the impression that the words are still distinct on the lips of most Americans, even if that distinction is nothing more but a lengthing of the /r/. Consonants like /r/ can have length variations too. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/45 "2012-06-19T22:34:22Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > The one that drives me flippy is the current vogue for pronouncing “negotiate” as ne-go-SEE-ate. NPR’s broadcasts are full of it (ba-dum-ching!). I’ve always wondered if they’re really pronouncing it that way, or if it only seems that way due to limitations of sound transmission and reproduction. It’s been ages since my phonology class, and what I was told may well be technologically out of date. But FWIW, it was that several phoneme pairs are distinguished only by frequencies which were too high to be transmitted by phones, and presumably most radios as well. This was the main reason why special letter names, like Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie, were developed in the early days of telecom, as well as the cliched telephone operator pronunciations of the numbers “fower”, “fiyiv”, and “niyun”. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/46 "2012-06-19T22:39:49Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Two I particularly hate are “calvary” when someone means “cavalry” (the first is where Jesus was crucified, the second is Custer’s branch of the Army), And “Calgary” for “Calvary”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/47 "2012-06-19T22:48:56Z")
When did “Harass” turn into “Harris”? Was there a guy by that name who was really good at harassing? Did it involve something other than blood on the badge? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/48 "2012-06-19T22:52:34Z")
When Joan Holloway got married? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/49 "2012-06-19T22:59:15Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Dickens spells out his characters non-standard pronunciations for you. It’s werry vearing, after a while. In fact, as a NAE speaker I sometimes have to enunciate some of the dialog, just to understand it: [QUOTE=Sam Weller, of the Pickwick Papers] I had a reg’lar new fit o’ clothes that mornin’, gen’l’men of the jury,’ said Sam, ‘and that was a wery partickler and uncommon circumstance vith me in those days. … If they wos a pair o’ patent double million magnifyin’ gas microscopes of hextra power, p’raps I might be able to see through a flight o’ stairs and a deal door; but bein’ only eyes, you see, my wision’s limited’… [/quote] If I read that quickly, I don’t always catch it all–but if I sub-vocalize, I get it. So yes, I’d say that sometimes you _ **have** _ to hear what you read, in a way. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/50 "2012-06-19T23:01:59Z")
PRO-grum is common here in south Georgia. People also mistakenly pronounce the L in salmon here. The one I’ll hate forever is when people mispronounce mischievous. There is no i after the v and never has been. Every dictionary I’ve ever checked has one pronunciation only, and it ain’t “miss chee vee us”!! If one looks up “harass” in an old dictionary, say a 1950’s edition, you’ll find only the hare-us pronunciation. I have a '79 edition that has both, with hare-us first. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/51 "2012-06-19T23:08:36Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > What? You can hear pronounciations when you read? Wow! You’re good! I’m confused by this comment. Reading the OP I “heard” both “Veterans” and “Vechrins”. Can you explain what you meant? Or was I woooshed by sarcasm here? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/52 "2012-06-19T23:41:41Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve always wondered if they’re really pronouncing it that way, or if it only seems that way due to limitations of sound transmission and reproduction. It’s been ages since my phonology class, and what I was told may well be technologically out of date. But FWIW, it was that several phoneme pairs are distinguished only by frequencies which were too high to be transmitted by phones, and presumably most radios as well. This was the main reason why special letter names, like Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie, were developed in the early days of telecom, as well as the cliched telephone operator pronunciations of the numbers “fower”, “fiyiv”, and “niyun”. Nah, it’s definitely an affectation on the part of the (non-British) NPR broadcasters. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/53 "2012-06-19T23:49:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > When did “Harass” turn into “Harris”? Was there a guy by that name who was really good at harassing? Did it involve something other than blood on the badge? HA! I get jokes! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/54 "2012-06-20T00:04:54Z")
My impression is that the negoSEEate pronunciation was popularized by Henry Kissinger. I don’t have the impression that American usage is an affectation of British pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/55 "2012-06-20T00:08:01Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > People also mistakenly pronounce the L in salmon here. Sure they aren’t talking about Rushdie?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/56 "2012-06-20T21:57:09Z")
One I’ve been noticing more and more is “foward” for “forward”. I’ve heard both Jon Stewart and Brian Williams pronounce it without the first “r”. Is this a New York-type thing or what? There’s also a specifically New Mexican pronunciation thing that I hate - some of our newscasters seem unable to pronounce the name “Ruidoso”. They’ll say “Ree-a-do-sa” instead of “Ru-ee-doh-soh”, much in the way that some people say “nucular” instead of “nuclear”. I always want to call them up and make them repeat the word “ruin” a hundred times just to demonstrate that they are physically capable of making the correct sound. Probably not something that bothers anyone who’s not from around here, though. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/57 "2012-06-20T22:32:04Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > There’s also a specifically New Mexican pronunciation thing that I hate - some of our newscasters seem unable to pronounce the name “Ruidoso”. Ummm. . .well, that ain’t a name. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/58 "2012-06-21T01:46:04Z")
A strong second on the “_fo_ward” thing. The only thing worse than that pronunciation is the annoying, trite way it always seems to be used in business, i.e, “going forward…” Irritate! People that say “liberry” for library and “pitcher” for picture will immediately and forever be considered numpties. It wasn’t until I moved to the eastern side of the U.S. that I heard people pronouncing “aunt” the way it’s spelled as opposed to “ant”. I realize this is correct and so have tried to change my ignorant ways, but what’s up with (usually black people) pronouncing it “unt”? Gah! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/59 "2012-06-21T01:56:10Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > People that say “liberry” for library and “pitcher” for picture will immediately and forever be considered numpties. I believe the polite term is “numptons”, though their popular musicans and playwrights sometimes use “numpties” in an effort to reclaim the word. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/60 "2012-06-21T02:02:38Z")
“ath-a-lete” “nu-kyoo-lar” “nup-tchyoo-als” and my all time unfavorite: “CHEW-dren.” (That one seems popular among people who are trying to get some sketchy law passed. “Do it for the CHEW-dren.”) It also bugs me that the named “Favre” (as in Brett) is pronounced “Farve,” but hey, whatever. I’m kind of over that one now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645.md?page=4)