# Pronounciations that grate: Is it because I'm old? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645 "2012-06-19T14:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/141 "2012-06-23T05:45:16Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The idea of the i in long-lived being an aɪ̯ sound is so obviously wrong to me, I’m astounded. People say it that way? According to the Oxford English Dictionary, many do, although that fact, in itself, suggests that this pronunciation may be more common outside North America. Historically, words like “life” and “wife”, whose plural form includes the change /f/-\>/v/, also are the vestiges of a certain class of native English nouns which, through the early ME period, also had /f/-\>/v/ in the oblique cases of the singular. So for _lyf_ (“life”) you had: [ul] [li]\*Singular nominative: \ ***lyf** [/li][li]\*Singular accusative & dative: \ ***lyve** [/li][li]\*Singular possessive or genitive \ ***lyves** [sup]1[/sup][/li][li]\*Plural, all cases: \ ***lyves** [/li][/ul] An example of _lyve_ being used this way in the singular: _And, good Brothyr, fayle me nat now in my gret necessyte, for y had nevyr so mych nede therof in my lyve_[sup]2[/sup] Not long after this time the paradigm had changed into what we have today. [ul] [li]\*Singular, all cases: \ ***lyfe** [/li][li]\*Plural, all cases: \ ***lyves** [/li][/ul] And the point of all this is that there actually was a lengthy historical precedence of the “long i” in non-plural manifestations of “life”. This was just about the time when the singular dative as a distinctly inflected form disappeared anyway, so we don’t find it in all dialects. But it does help explain why the “i” is /ai/ in “alive”, among other things, and why some people do pronounce the “i” as /ai/ in “long-lived”. I was intrigued to read here, [a couple of years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12631070&postcount=32), a post in which somebody said the jewelry store had lost his wives ring. This was likely caused by a moment of carelessness or distraction, but hey, maybe it’s the last ever attestable occurrence of _wives_ to indicate the singular possessive. [sup]1[/sup]At this time writers had not yet begun to use the apostrophe in spelling plurals. That was a better time for all. [sup]2[/sup]From the online corpus of Middle English prose and verse of the University of Michigan. [Link](http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme?didno=ACA1723.0001.001;rgn=full+text;size=25;sort=occur;start=1;subview=detail;type=simple;view=reslist;q1=my+lyve). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/142 "2012-06-23T10:40:15Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > And one of the oddest of all–I’ve heard one particular person on the radio who seemingly cannot pronounce “hurricane” to save his life. He says “hurricun.” I once ran into a very drunk British dude at a bar in St Martin who rambled on and on about “hurricuns”. Seemed like an affectation. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/143 "2012-06-23T11:03:52Z")
What’s with all the “words pronounced as if letters were swapped” stuff? I just don’t buy that. If you’re able to swap the letters in the word around to get a more “logical” phonetic spelling I doubt it’s any more than coincidence. > [@Flyer](#): > > Another thing, which may be a regionalism and/or a Britishism; taking words that end in -a and making them end in -ar. For instance, idea becomes “idear”, and peninsula becomes “peninsular.” For most British people “peninsular” would sound exactly the same as “peninsula”. If you’re hearing an actual R sound at the end it’s probably nothing to do with us. > [@Flyer](#): > > And one of the oddest of all–I’ve heard one particular person on the radio who seemingly cannot pronounce “hurricane” to save his life. He says “hurricun.” > [@kayaker](#): > > I once ran into a very drunk British dude at a bar in St Martin who rambled on and on about “hurricuns”. Seemed like an affectation. That’s the standard pronunciation in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/144 "2012-06-23T11:06:28Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I was just telling HighFructose that Sundee - Saturdee were documented proper pronunciations. Cool. And I wasn’t disagreeing with your point about them both being proper, just noting that there’s a widespread perception that in dictionaries the first pronunciation is the one you’re “supposed” to use, and subsequent ones are substandard. ---
**Author:** ![Bilbo1967](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bilbo1967](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bilbo1967)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/145 "2012-06-23T11:33:25Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That’s the standard pronunciation in the UK. Really? Not anywhere in the UK I’ve ever been to. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/146 "2012-06-23T11:38:16Z")
Pancree-ass instead of pan-cre-us drives me up the wall. You-tye-rine instead of you-tur-in Sir-vye-cal instead of sir-ve-cull ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/147 "2012-06-23T11:46:55Z")
> [@Bilbo1967](#): > > Really? Not anywhere in the UK I’ve ever been to. Yo, **Mangetout**! Say hurricane. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/148 "2012-06-23T11:59:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Is _this_ a whoosh? > > The first _D_ is silent. It’s the _second_ one, the one in _day_, that I pronounce. I guess we’ll never agree or convince each other, then. I do not pronounce it as you do, but instead as Wendsday. I understand and can say Wenzday, but that’s not how I pronounce it. The two are very similar but not identical. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > And the point of all this is that there actually was a lengthy historical precedence of the “long i” in non-plural manifestations of “life”. I maintain that “short-lived” is not a manifestation of “life,” but of “live.” ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/149 "2012-06-23T12:01:37Z")
> [@Bilbo1967](#): > > Really? Not anywhere in the UK I’ve ever been to. Assuming they meant [this pronunciation](http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=hurricane) then yes it’s standard in that it’s the first pronunciation mentioned by dictionaries and it’s what “educated” people tend to say. You can also see it in a dictionary [here](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hurricane) (where it also lists the “hurri-cane” pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/150 "2012-06-23T12:18:28Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > most British people “peninsular” would sound exactly the same as “peninsula”. If you’re hearing an actual R sound at the end it’s probably nothing to do with us. I’m guessing that this is a reference to the “intrusive R,” which discussions on this board have shown that many British people don’t even realize they do ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/151 "2012-06-23T12:23:56Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I guess we’ll never agree or convince each other, then. I do not pronounce it as you do, but instead as Wendsday. I understand and can say Wenzday, but that’s not how I pronounce it. The two are very similar but not identical. As an alternate example, I pronounce “wines” and “winds” (as in winds up) slightly differently. For me, Wednesday follows the same pattern as winds. ---
**Author:** ![Bilbo1967](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bilbo1967](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bilbo1967)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/152 "2012-06-23T12:32:56Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Assuming they meant [this pronunciation](http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=hurricane) then yes it’s standard in that it’s the first pronunciation mentioned by dictionaries and it’s what “educated” people tend to say. You can also see it in a dictionary [here](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/hurricane) (where it also lists the “hurri-cane” pronunciation. I consider myself pretty well educated and I speak with other educated people. I’ve lived in four different areas of the UK and worked in most of the rest; I don’t care what dictionaries say, that is not the standard pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/153 "2012-06-23T13:12:47Z")
> [@Bilbo1967](#): > > I consider myself pretty well educated and I speak with other educated people. I’ve lived in four different areas of the UK and worked in most of the rest; I don’t care what dictionaries say, that is not the standard pronunciation. Well that’s me told then! If it makes any difference, these sources (everything I’ve found on the British pronunciation of the word) agree with what I said though: [http://www.pronounceitright.com/pronounce/9535/hurricane-uk](http://www.pronounceitright.com/pronounce/9535/hurricane-uk) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_and\_British\_English\_pronunciation\_differences#Single\_differences](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_pronunciation_differences#Single_differences) [http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/hurricane](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/hurricane) [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hurricane](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hurricane) ---
**Author:** ![oreally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ab992/32.png) [@oreally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oreally)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/154 "2012-06-23T13:34:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Have you considered that you might be the one who’s wrong? You see, instead of complaining, I looked up the words in a dictionary, and “lava” is indeed pronounced the way you describe. You might try looking again, because you are indeed wrong. It’s “la-vuh,” not “laa-vuh.” > [@Biggirl](#): > > And ‘irreplaceaboo’ is not acceptable in any context. Give it time :gag: Hey lemme ax you somethin. Yom sayn? > [@terentii](#): > > I also loathe hearing “further” when the speaker clearly means “farther.” Apparently they don’t bother teaching the difference between the two even in journalism school nowadays. Probably because there is none. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Ne-go-see-ate is the British pronunciation, almost as grating to my ear as “tissue” and “issue” with an S sound instead of an SH sound. Or shedule instead of schedule. That’s not half as bad as “militree” for “military” or “garridge” for “garage.” I was watching a documentary on WW II and the English narrator kept referring to the “gnatsies.” I actually starting saying “nazis” angrily out loud every time he butchered it. ARRGGGHH 🙂 > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > In response to the OP, pronouncing ‘boo’ for words that end in ‘ble’ is a somewhat common African American speech inflection, especially in lower-educated populations. gasp racist! racist! _sirens blaring_ Call out the race card nazis, we gots us an execution to perform! 😉 > [@UntouchedTakeaway](#): > > “Carmel” for “Car-a-mel”. Makes me _insane_ - I’ve even heard it from radio “professionals”. > > UT Sorry but either are correct. You don’t always pronounce every syllable in a word. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not sure what I’m arguing for at this point, but > > roof -\> rooves ? No such word. > [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I > The Southern habit of (mis)pronouncing the -ture in words such as furniture and literature as “-tyoor” instead of “-chur” still irritates me after nearly 30 years of living here. ? I’ve lived here almost as long. I’ve yet to hear that. You in the backwoods there boy? 😉 And don’t get me started on the valley girl accent which has been all the rage among girls (mostly younger) for a long time. Serrious-layyyy… :hurl: > [@denquixote](#): > > (And I don’t want to hear what a racist I am, I agree with everything Al says :rolleyes: :smack: > [@LegsAkimbo](#): > > Real-i-tor drives me nuts, more so now that we are house-shopping so people are saying it to me more. > > I have noticed the deal with actors grossly mispronouncing words; it mostly serves to remind me that they are pretty much idiots Yep. Of course they pale in comparison to most modern so-called “musicians.” Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/155 "2012-06-23T13:44:32Z")
I’ve heard hurricane pronounced both ways- I’ll even use both myself. If I’m saying there was, say, a hurricane due to hit Liverpool tomorrow, it’d be ‘hu-ri-cayne’, if I’m saying ‘Hurricane Betsy did £30 million worth of of improvements in Liverpool yesterday’, I’m likely to say ‘hu-ri-cən Betsy’. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/156 "2012-06-23T14:04:29Z")
That makes me think. What could be better evidence than [this?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqs1YXfdtGE) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/157 "2012-06-23T14:19:24Z")
> [@oreally](#): > > That’s not half as bad as “militree” for “military” To me the American pronunciation of “military” sounds nasty. As you said yourself, you don’t always pronounce every letter and “mili-terry” sounds like you all just look at the word and pronounce it wrong because that’s how it’s spelt. In fact I could come up with hundreds of American pronunciations that I dislike, but I take this thread to be more about wrong (or non-standard) pronunciations rather than things that are correct - just not where you come from. ---
**Author:** ![oreally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ab992/32.png) [@oreally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oreally)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/158 "2012-06-23T14:49:30Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > To me the American pronunciation of “military” sounds nasty. As you said yourself, you don’t always pronounce every letter and “mili-terry” sounds like you all just look at the word and pronounce it wrong because that’s how it’s spelt. > > In fact I could come up with hundreds of American pronunciations that I dislike, but I take this thread to be more about wrong (or non-standard) pronunciations rather than things that are correct - just not where you come from. Actually it’s both, but anyway - Sorry but “militree” isn’t anywhere near correct and “military” is. If you have some British dictionary which disagrees I’d like to see it though. And if it is considered correct in the “King’s English”…it’s still annoying as hell. It sounds so over-the-top British, in a Hugh Grant kinda way. And you’re right, we could come up with hundreds of brit pronunciations that are annoying. Perhaps just a few American as well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/159 "2012-06-23T14:55:00Z")
> [@oreally](#): > > Actually it’s both, but anyway - > > Sorry but “militree” isn’t anywhere near correct and “military” is. If you have some British dictionary which disagrees I’d like to see it though. And if it is considered correct in the “King’s English”…it’s still annoying as hell. It sounds so over-the-top British, in a Hugh Grant kinda way. > > And you’re right, we could come up with hundreds of brit pronunciations that are annoying. Perhaps just a few American as well. 😉 I don’t know what you mean by not “anywhere near correct”. It’s exactly correct in British English, which was entirely my point. ---
**Author:** ![oreally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ab992/32.png) [@oreally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oreally)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645/160 "2012-06-23T15:01:41Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by not “anywhere near correct”. “Incorrect” then, Mr Pedantic. > [@](#): > > It’s exactly correct in British English, which was entirely my point. No it’s not, which is mine. Where are you getting that it is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronounciations-that-grate-is-it-because-im-old/625645.md?page=9)