That just shows the limitations of attempting to use such symbols to describe something as subtle as the various regional pronunciations of a word. An “r” is not binary, it is not there or not there. There is a continuum from a nonexistent “r” through a subtle “r” to a stronger US style “r”.
Huh, this is interesting. I was going off the Macmillan dictionary, which had the “r” in both the US and UK pronunciations, which made me think it was just part of the vowel sound.
But on checking your link, perhaps Macmillan was just trying to say that some British dialects are rhotic.
So, it seems I was indeed wrong on that point.
We might as well elide it all the way to extr’y for economy. I’m all for simplifying the English language - really.
I’m not sure I agree. Letters that are usually considered silent can change the sounds of other letters. We say the e at the ends of words like “rate” is silent, even though that e chances the sound of the “a” vowel.
I note that the same vowel changes occur in both rhotic and non-rhotic accents. The rhotic accents came first, and the rhoticity is what changed the preceding vowel sounds. Those who then lost the rhoticity retained the vowel modifications.
And that is the word used: rhoticity, which comes from the Greek letter rho, which is analogous to our R. It seems to me that, though we hide it using Greek, we are essentially talking about R-like and non-R-like accents.
And “rhoticity” itself is defined as “of, relating to, having, or being an accent or dialect in English in which an /r/ sound is retained before consonants.”
Mary, Merry, and marry all sound different - I 100% do not need other words for context to understand which another person in this part of the US is saying. Now, someone from elsewhere where there’s no real distinction saying them, however…
I did not think I could hear a difference between cot/caught (and tot/taught) but a kind person once recorded them saying both for me and while it turns out I can literally hear a difference - because one of their pronunciations sounds like someone exaggerating a difference for silly effect - I still had no idea which word they were saying each time without context.
It’s not “core” that’s all that different, it’s straw.
based on the two videos, all of the dialects are using “ɔ” as the vowel sound for “core,” different "r"s but the same vowel. But non-Americans say straw with a “ɔ” while most US dialects say straw with an “ɑ.” So of course they don’t rhyme (to us). Completely different vowel.
Also, in the UK do they really not consider it rhyming when two words begin with the same consonant? That’s a difference. (to me, sting, sling, and sing rhyme)
No. That’s got nothing to do with rhyming whatever country you’re from, it’s just the definition of what rhyming is.
And everyone in the UK who has good hearing can hear the difference between corn with a pronounced r and corn where the r merely modifies the vowel. We have a hell of a lot of dialects where the r is pronounced, ie. rhotic accents - not just Scotland and Northern Ireland but also Cornwall and most working-class people south-west of Bath, definitely in England.
We hear rhotic UK accents on TV frequently. They are even mimicked if someone wants to pretend to be a “yokel.”
FWIW the Macmillan English dictionary entry for porn has r in parentheses, indicating it’s optional depending on dialect. It does that for most words where rhoticity is a feature of some accents but not a feature of RP, which the dictionary is based upon.
If I’m really pressed to say extraordinary, I pronounce every syllable. If I have a second to think about it, I pronounce it “un-YOO-zhu-al” There’s no need to bruise the listener’s ears or confuse him.
There are actually a whole mess of IPA symbols that represent various types of ‘r’. No, it’s not absolutely perfect, but there is a good deal of detail available in transcription.
i’m confuzzled.
That’s funny. I can easily tell which is which without context; here in England they are pronounced no more similarly than cot and cat. I think I could tell which is farther and which father if an American said them (or anyone else with a rhotic accent), but only if I was listening for it.