# Pronouncing "foreign language" words **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675 "2019-06-18T12:59:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/21 "2019-06-19T09:25:38Z")
In Hebrew, it works like this: If there’s an old Hebrew name for the country, it goes with this. Thus, France is “Tzarfat”, Spain is “Sefarad”, India is “Hodu” and China is “Sin”. If there’s no Hebrew name for it, then it goes with a Latinate name - Italia, Germania, Anglia, Shvetzaria (Switzerland), Norvegia (Norway) and so on. (Incidentally, the above two rules also apply to the names of Popes. John Paul II, for instance, was referred to as Yochanan Paulus - first name in Hebrew, second name in Latin). If there’s no Latinate name, they pronounce it the local way, except with Hebrew consonants and vowels. People never try to copy local pronunciation, unless they’re being pretentious or mocking. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/22 "2019-06-19T12:12:11Z")
In Wales (particularly South Wales, which is more dominated by the English language than Welsh), some towns and cities have two names. So… Cardiff/Caerdydd Swansea/Abertawe You choose which version depending on which language you’re speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/23 "2019-06-19T14:55:34Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > In Wales (particularly South Wales, which is more dominated by the English language than Welsh), some towns and cities have two names. > > So… > Cardiff/Caerdydd > Swansea/Abertawe > > You choose which version depending on which language you’re speaking. Same for Belgium, where both French and Flemish are spoken. Antwerp is _Antwerpen_ in Flemish and _Anvers_ in French. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/24 "2019-06-20T01:17:11Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > In Wales (particularly South Wales, which is more dominated by the English language than Welsh), some towns and cities have two names . . . > [@Chefguy](#): > > Same for Belgium, where both French and Flemish are spoken . . . I’m pretty sure this is standard for countries were two or more languages are spoken. What I find curious, thoug, is that the English names of foreign cities are often taken from the languages of third countries. Roma, Milano, Venezia, Napoli. Torino etc are all referred to in English by their _French_ names, or variants thereof. Wien is called by its Italian name. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/25 "2019-06-20T04:37:42Z")
It may be okay to try to pronounce things and places, but highly recommend not trying to wing it with proper names as it not only be awkward, but insulting if you use the wrong accent. Here’s a hilarious skit about the danger of mispronouncing a Cantonese name. The fun starts at 0:55 - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wD8Ia\_PxJg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wD8Ia_PxJg) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/26 "2019-06-20T05:48:55Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > At times, it sort of surprises me when someone will be speaking in a plain, American-sounding accent, and then they will say their name or someone/someplace’s name, and they roll their "r"s like crazy, or pronounce something otherwise non-American. If you have a name from a different language–a name which was used in your home all the time you were growing up in that language, which you obviously speak–why would you change the pronunciation? This is an every-day occurrence in L.A., where most people speak a language other than English at home, and where most millennials are bilingual. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I wonder how common the reverse is? When someone in a Spanish speaking country is pronouncing an American name, do they make a point of pronouncing it as an American would? If you moved to Mexico, and became fluent in Spanish, would you change the way you pronounce your own name? Or the name of your home state? Probably not. This is not about “making a point,” but rather is just customary habit. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > If you listen to foreign language radio here in the States for any length of time, you’ll hear it. Quite often the American words in the commercials are spoken in an American accent. Right, because they usually speak English, too, and know the English pronunciation, which most people use. Again–this isn’t “making a point.” It’s just custom and habit. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/27 "2019-06-20T05:51:49Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > What I find curious, thoug, is that the English names of foreign cities are often taken from the languages of third countries. Roma, Milano, Venezia, Napoli. Torino etc are all referred to in English by their _French_ names, or variants thereof. In the case of Milan and Turin, I think they only started referring to themselves using the Italian names relatively recently. They’re still Milan and Turin in Lombard and Piedmontese, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/28 "2019-06-20T06:08:43Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I’m pretty sure this is standard for countries were two or more languages are spoken. > > What I find curious, thoug, is that the English names of foreign cities are often taken from the languages of third countries. Roma, Milano, Venezia, Napoli. Torino etc are all referred to in English by their _French_ names, or variants thereof. Wien is called by its Italian name. Happens with people too. You guys refer to Ysabel or Isabel of Castille\* by the Italian Isabella. - The I-version is more common, specially nowadays. She used the Y version. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/29 "2019-06-20T12:30:55Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > If you moved to Mexico, and became fluent in Spanish, would you change the way you pronounce your own name? Or the name of your home state? Probably not. I’ve moved to Mexico three times now, and yes, I certainly change the pronunciation of my name and home state to suit the local language, and sometimes in the case of my name, change it entirely (“Jim” pronounced “Jeem,” or even “Jeemy”), and “Michigan” pronounced phonetically, which is exactly what is done in Mexico. In English, I pronounce and expect to hear “Los Angeles” pronounced in the American English way, because I’m speaking English and not being pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/30 "2019-06-20T12:36:56Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’ve moved to Mexico three times now, and yes, I certainly change the pronunciation of my name and home state to suit the local language, and sometimes in the case of my name, change it entirely (“Jim” pronounced “Jeem,” or even “Jeemy”) And all this time me hoping you were a Baltasar! Where’s my crying smiley? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/31 "2019-06-20T12:55:00Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I’m pretty sure this is standard for countries were two or more languages are spoken. > > What I find curious, thoug, is that the English names of foreign cities are often taken from the languages of third countries. Roma, Milano, Venezia, Napoli. Torino etc are all referred to in English by their _French_ names, or variants thereof. Wien is called by its Italian name. Not when you consider the international language of diplomacy was historically French. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/32 "2019-06-20T13:13:33Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I’m pretty sure this is standard for countries were two or more languages are spoken. > > What I find curious, thoug, is that the English names of foreign cities are often taken from the languages of third countries. Roma, Milano, Venezia, Napoli. Torino etc are all referred to in English by their _French_ names, or variants thereof. Wien is called by its Italian name. Seems to be quite common. I say I live near Luzern (German name), not Lucerne (French name), but much of the tourist literature uses Lucerne. Of course, all cantons in Swltzerland have French, German and Italian names, but not all the towns do. So Schaffhausen is Schaffhausen, also in Italian. But the bigger cities, such as Geneva/Genf/Ginerva and Zürich/Zurich/Zurigo (plus Zuri in the local language) have multiple names, and the English speakers here tend to use the name which is used in the city. So even though I live in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, I would normally mention Geneva, if I am speaking English, but Genf if I am speaking German. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > In the case of Milan and Turin, I think they only started referring to themselves using the Italian names relatively recently. They’re still Milan and Turin in Lombard and Piedmontese, respectively. Took me a long time to learn that Mailand is Milan in German. Especially since so many people here refer to it as Milano. Torino I learned during the hype preceding the 2006 Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/33 "2019-06-20T14:39:58Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > If you have a name from a different language–a name which was used in your home all the time you were growing up in that language, which you obviously speak–why would you change the pronunciation? I do it because different languages have different ways of pronouncing consonants and vowels, and switching between them mid-sentence is often difficult and always sounds bad. If you’re playing the guitar and suddenly decided to play some Debussy, would you switch to a piano? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/34 "2019-06-20T14:46:42Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > If you have a name from a different language–a name which was used in your home all the time you were growing up in that language, which you obviously speak–why would you change the pronunciation? Because foreigners try to strangle themselves with that soft r before grabbing the final consonant and hitting themselves over the head with it, repeatedly. My name includes a couple of sounds which are quite unusual; I prefer being able to communicate smoothly, finish meetings on the same day in which they started and hopefully keep people from needing oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/35 "2019-06-20T15:50:18Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > If you have a name from a different language–a name which was used in your home all the time you were growing up in that language, which you obviously speak–why would you change the pronunciation? Native Japanese speakers may not be able to handle native pronunciation of English names and places. Each language has its own rhythm and cadence and throwing in foreign words can interrupt that. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/36 "2019-06-20T16:07:38Z")
I’ve watched soccer games that I could only get on Univision (because reasons), and the Spanish-speaking announcers do it. "_Alvarez tiene la pelota. Se lo pasa a Colón. ¡Y aquí viene_ **Jeff Smith** _para robarlo!_ ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/37 "2019-06-20T16:29:33Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I’m honestly curious, what would they use instead? New York is New York, Detroit is Detroit? > > I know that, for instance, an American map will show the city of “Vienna”, whereas a local map will show “Wien”. Or “Munich”/“Munchen” (don’t know how to do the umlat). 1. It gets even worse when “our” place name is a foreign word or words. DuBois PA for example. Locals pronounce it “Dew-boys”. I’ve had French-Canadian friends still looking for the place after they had arrived there. 🙂 Part 2 - It varies; some will use the word in their language for “New” and a more phonetic form of York. I have relatives from the Old Country I can speak with reasonably well until it comes to our place names; then I usually have them point at a place on the map. As for the OP; I vary. Sometimes I use the actual pronunciation (like for North Versailles PA) and sometimes our American-ized pronunciation. No pretense to it (usually) - just a habit from coming from a multilingual family and traveling in like circles. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/38 "2019-06-20T20:50:45Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’ve moved to Mexico three times now, and yes, I certainly change the pronunciation of my name and home state to suit the local language, and sometimes in the case of my name, change it entirely (“Jim” pronounced “Jeem,” or even “Jeemy”), and “Michigan” pronounced phonetically, which is exactly what is done in Mexico. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/39 "2019-06-20T21:07:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Because foreigners try to strangle themselves with that soft r before grabbing the final consonant and hitting themselves over the head with it, repeatedly. My name includes a couple of sounds which are quite unusual; I prefer being able to communicate smoothly, finish meetings on the same day in which they started and hopefully keep people from needing oxygen. If it gets to the point of miscommunication, of course I’ll offer native pronunciation. But before that, I’ll give someone the benefit of the doubt, and just as often they do fine. Of course, all of this depends on the name in question. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675/40 "2019-06-21T00:32:09Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I’m pretty sure this is standard for countries were two or more languages are spoken. Yes. I pronounce “Montreal”, “Quebec” and “Toronto” differently if I’m speaking French or English. (I’m sure there are other examples, but those are the three that come to mind immediately. ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouncing-foreign-language-words/835675.md?page=3)