# Pronouns and idiot fascists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369 "2022-08-26T01:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/21 "2022-08-27T15:36:06Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > The thing I’ve noticed lately in a lot of GOP campaign ads are complaints about how Democrats want to allow men to complete with girls in (usually high school) athletics. Not men and women or boys and girls, it’s always “men” and “girls”. I know… and it’s usually by GOP/Preachers with the same predilection as Matt Gaetz. ( It’s also usually about a week before they are caught by Chris Hansen. ) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/22 "2022-08-27T18:01:01Z")
I think its because being told to use a particular pronouns is probably the most direct way that transgender people are affecting them directly. They really don’t like to be told how to do things, (see wearing a mask). They should be allowed to talk how they want to talk, and anyone telling them that they should use “she”, or “they” when instead of the “he” that they naturally drift towards is infringing on their first amendment rights. Also being told that they are doing it wrong feels to them like an attack on them. Or for Ted Cruz: I think its because being told to use a particular pronouns is probably the most direct way that transgender people are affecting kiss my ass directly. Kiss my ass really doesn’t like to be told how to do things, (see wearing a mask). Kiss my ass should be allowed to talk how Kiss my ass wants to talk, and anyone telling kiss my ass that kiss my ass should use “she”, or “they” when instead of the “he” that kiss my ass naturally drifts towards is infringing on kiss my ass’s first amendment rights. Also being told that kiss my ass is doing it wrong feels to kiss my ass like an attack on kiss my ass. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/23 "2022-08-27T18:05:35Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Which is kinda strange to me, as the dynamics of stoking outrage for votes seems unnecessary. Those voters are going to vote for the GOP anyway. Do they think they will harvest enough fence sitters to their side, minus the LGBT+ voters going the other way? Odd calculus. Well, and the LGBTQ+ people have non-LGBTQ+ friends and families who love them, so the bigotry has ripple effects. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/24 "2022-08-28T12:12:32Z")
Yes, which is why I think gay marriage ultimately succeeded. Once enough people “came out”, a majority of Americans recognized that they had loved ones who were part of that community. The abstract became concrete. Which many have pointed out is a particular weakness of many, particularly those on the right - as long as an argument exists in the abstract (for them) they will not bend, but the moment it becomes concrete (impacts them personally or someone they love) then it’s, “OH! I get it now!” ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/25 "2022-08-28T12:21:42Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Kiss my ass really doesn’t like to be told how to do things, (see wearing a mask). Kiss my ass should be allowed to talk how Kiss my ass wants to talk, and anyone telling kiss my ass that kiss my ass should use “she”, or “they” when instead of the “he” that kiss my ass naturally drifts towards is infringing on kiss my ass’s first amendment rights. I dont understand why everyone doesn’t use this method of referring to kiss my ass like this universally, for the remainder of kiss my ass’s time on this earth, ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/26 "2022-08-28T14:28:29Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Yes, which is why I think gay marriage ultimately succeeded. Once enough people “came out”, a majority of Americans recognized that they had loved ones who were part of that community. Which is why the especially stupid bigots think if they “wall off” gay people, there will be no more gay people in the “normal” population…not quite realizing where gay people actually come from. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/27 "2022-08-28T14:38:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > When you’re writing a formal letter to someone whose name you don’t recognize, or a name that can be either male or female, do you address it to “Mr. Smith” or “Ms. Smith”? If Smith has specified their pronouns, then it’s easy. I confess, I’m hoping that Mx catches on. Ms did. Mx solves even more problems. (It’s pronounced “mix”.) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/28 "2022-08-28T18:04:28Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > I dont understand why everyone doesn’t use this method of referring to kiss my ass like this universally, I would think that the NY Times and Washington Post have style guidelines that say articles should use the preferred pronouns of the person being referenced . . . ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/29 "2022-08-29T12:45:22Z")
While not common, Mix is a surname. "Dear Mx. Mix, Regarding our conversation of Aug 25…" 😃 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/30 "2022-08-29T19:00:43Z")
I’ve known people named “Hon” and “Ho”. I bet in some part of the world someone is named “Miz”. 🤷 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/31 "2022-08-29T19:13:04Z")
> [@Rebo](#): > > While not common, Mix is a surname. > > "Dear Mx. Mix, If Mr. Mister had formed in 2022 instead of 1982. (Also, [“Mister” is a legitimate English surname, since at least the eleventh century.](https://www.houseofnames.com/mister-family-crest#:~:text=The%20Mister%20family's%20name%20is,behaved%20in%20a%20masterful%20manner), so there are some actual Mr. Misters running around out there.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/32 "2022-08-29T22:07:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > For people who keep getting their panties so inextricably bunched over simple linguistic shifts like using the word “women” to refer to both cisgender and transgender women Using the word “women” to mean both cisgender (ie, actual biological) women and transwomen (ie, men who would like to be thought of as women) is not a “simple linguistic shift” - it’s the direct basis for such things as: - biological men in womens’ prisons (_any_ male prisoner at all who simply declares himself to have a female gender identity, with no need for any surgery or hormones) threatening rape (Edna Mahon prison), actually raping (Yorkshire,England; Clark County, Indiana) or having a history of rape (loads of places, but it’s now made it to my own home state of Victoria). - Women being prevented from having single-sex services, single-sex services including rape crisis centers being shut down or defunded (Vancouver rape relief, Sydney womens’ legal center, Bristol rape crisis center and so on) - Male predators going into womens’ unclothed spaces and getting women chucked out when they complain (WiSpa, Port Townsend YMCA etc) - The continued promotion of medicalisation to “transkids” including puberty blockers, while in the actual science-based reality-based world (Sweden, Finland, UK) they’re being rolled back because of their harmful effects and total lack of knowledge of the long-term consequences. Now, probably most people here don’t know that this stuff is going on, because corporate left-wing media is now as much of an information bubble on this issue as Fox News is on whether Trump won the election. But while you’re all shaking your heads, mystified at how many people continue to vote Republican and “have their panties in a bunch” - well, you’re going to continue to be mystified until you realise that a lot of these people know stuff that you actually don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/33 "2022-08-29T22:33:18Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Using the word “women” to mean both cisgender (ie, actual biological) women and transwomen (ie, men who would like to be thought of as women) [Moderating] This is a violation of rule 4 in our Guidelines for posting on transgender issues: > [@Guidelines for posting on transgender issues on the SDMB](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guidelines-for-posting-on-transgender-issues-on-the-sdmb/937563/1): > > Do not deliberately misgender another poster – that is, refer to them by a pronoun or other sex-specific term indicating a gender other than the one they identify as. This applies only in cases where a poster’s gender identity is reasonably clear. Likewise, do not deliberately misgender off-board figures. This is a more rigorous standard than we apply in other contexts; we do not normally mod posters for merely insulting off-board figures. Deal with it. This is only a note, but any further misgendering will result in a formal warning. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/34 "2022-08-29T22:36:31Z")
Wow, you sure are quick to label transgender people “predators” as soon as somebody in a news story who objects to their presence accuses them of being “predators”, aren’t you? I wonder how vulnerable you’d be to potential libel suits if you weren’t flinging these accusations around anonymously. Suffice it to say that, although obviously I don’t disagree that transgender people can be sexual predators just like any other man or woman can, I have looked up a few of your (citeless) allusions to news stories that definitely are not described accurately by what you said. It’s not the non-transphobes who are in an “information bubble” here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/35 "2022-08-29T23:02:55Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > in the actual science-based reality-based world (Sweden, Finland, UK) And I’m glad you acknowledge, say, [Sweden’s recognition of transgender parenthood, where parental designations are assigned according to their legal gender identity rather than to biological sex at birth,](https://tgeu.org/sweden-recognises-trans-parenthood/) as being science-based and reality-based: > [@](#): > > Since 01 January 2019 a new law recognises trans people who are parents according to their legally recognised gender identity in their child’s documents. Trans men who give birth are designated as “father” and trans women who beget a child as “mother”. > > The Swedish law is a first in Europe recognising trans parenthood so clearly and thus implementing the demand from the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe to document trans people’s parenthood according to their gender identity. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/36 "2022-08-29T23:09:59Z")
I had a photo on my old phone. At the Jewish senior camp (I went as an aide) I used to attend, there was a nice sign in the men’s bathroom (I assume there was a copy in the women’s room) saying ‘Anybody who is in this room belongs here. If you have a problem with that, please take it up with the management’. It was a wonderful group of frum (religiously observant) Jewish hippies. They were selling copies of Straddling The Mezcihah (the mezcihah is the partition separating men and women in Orthodox services)- a book on transexedness and Orthodox Judaism. I was too broke to afford a copy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/37 "2022-08-29T23:25:21Z")
I am very aware of what “stuff is going on” because i have a bunch of friends who are trans or non-binary, and a couple of my friends have trans children. And because i know a lot of what “stuff is going on” i am also aware that trans women have a higher risk of rape than cis women, and are even more in need of protective spaces than cis women. And… In theory, anyone can sexually assault anyone. A friend of my mom’s was sexually assaulted in her dorm room by her cis female roommate. But in practice, the vast majority of sexual assault is committed by cis men. Trans women, are not only at extremely high risk of being victims, but are also under-represented among perps. I also know a lot of adults who wish they could have taken hormone blockers when they were teens. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/38 "2022-08-29T23:55:55Z")
For fuck’s sake. Did you forget what board this is, or have you just forgotten the basics? **Anecdotes are not data.** There are always nutters out there. You can’t just cherry pick them. I could easily pull up some black people who rape. Does that mean black people in general are predators? **Credible sources**. You don’t ever just look at newspapers that are biased in a single direction. You either look for unbiased news sources (which would be neither left nor right leaning) or you look to see that the same information is covered in many sources. And if the news source tries to tell you how to feel, it is likely propaganda. The same if it’s telling you that the other news sources are all biased or part of a conspiracy. **Confirmation bias** : You’re scared of a group of people for being different. You believe what you want to hear. **Look at the science** : All the statistics show that trans people are less likely to be predators on the whole, and are far more likely to be the victims. * * * And the reason for that is because of the hate that gets spread here. The hate that you decided to defend. I would suggest you go back and read who you used to be, and find out why you’ve changed. Because hating a whole group of people because of a few people? That’s the definition of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/39 "2022-08-30T00:30:59Z")
Unpacking some more of Aspidistra’s lies and misinformation is pretty gobsmacking. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > not a “simple linguistic shift” - it’s the direct basis for such things as: > > - biological men in womens’ prisons […] actually raping ([…] Clark County, Indiana) […] That apparently refers to [this appalling incident](https://www.corrections1.com/legal/articles/female-inmates-raped-when-male-detainees-allegedly-bribed-co-lawsuit-says-BvjFp89vYjjdGDmz/) where, allegedly, cisgender male detainees and inmates bribed a jail officer for the key to the housing area of female inmates whom they raped after using the key for access. AFAICT nobody involved with these horrific events identified as transgender in any way. Using such a crime on the part of cisgender men to gratuitously smear transgender people and trans rights advocacy in general is a new low even for transphobes. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > Now, probably most people here don’t know that this stuff is going on Yeah, because you’re flat-out lying about it. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/40 "2022-08-30T08:38:46Z")
Well, my mistake. It’s sometimes hard to keep the rapes straight in the current insanity. However, [Karen White](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison) identified as transgender, the [men in the Chandler case](https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-worlds-most-taboo-legal-case) identify as transgender, and the [rapist in prison in Victoria](https://archive.ph/KYXip) identifies as transgender, so you can see how that’s an easy slip to make [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369.md?page=3)