# Pronouns and idiot fascists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369 "2022-08-26T01:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/41 "2022-08-30T08:53:43Z")
It’s certainly easy to conflate rapists and transgender people if that’s the premise one starts with. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/42 "2022-08-30T09:04:06Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Male predators going into womens’ unclothed spaces and getting women chucked out when they complain (WiSpa, Port Townsend YMCA etc) I believe you misspelled “Karen gets kicked out after verbally assaulting female employee who was never left unattended with a minor and accusing her of being a rapist because she had a deep voice”. > **[Port Townsend Responds to Transphobic Bullying With Trans-Inclusive Proclamation](https://www.thestranger.com/news/2022/08/16/77901545/port-townsend-responds-to-transphobic-bullying-with-trans-inclusive-proclamation)** > > TERFs might wanna rethink their day trips to Port Townsend. [https://www.olympicpeninsulaymca.org/alert-bar/all/official-statement-regarding-mountain-view-pool/](https://www.olympicpeninsulaymca.org/alert-bar/all/official-statement-regarding-mountain-view-pool/) > **[Washington woman who screamed obscenities at trans YMCA employee somehow...](https://www.queerty.com/washington-woman-screamed-obscenities-trans-ymca-employee-somehow-shocked-banned-20220809)** > > A bigoted woman facing consequences for her actions this week has TERF Island all in a tizzy... > [@https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/wqa08c/comment/iklmttb/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](#): > > I live in PT- Julie is well known at the Y (we call it Mountain View) for making others uncomfortable in the pool when she uses slurs and goes on long diatribes and rants to anyone who she thinks will listen. The employee in question is a trans teen who has been out for more than five years. The parents know, I’m sure the students could care less, they’re there to learn how to swim. > > This was Julie’s third strike after many, many complaints- she just finally got a hot button issue where the people who agree with her have large platforms. Fortunately Port Townsend sees though her shit, get wrecked Julie. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/43 "2022-08-30T09:23:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I believe you misspelled “Karen gets kicked out after verbally assaulting female employee who was never left unattended with a minor and accusing her of being a rapist because she had a deep voice”. It is also worth noting that the number of trans people using their trans status to assault women (if not zero) is still significantly dwarfed by the number of self-righteous “Christian” transphobes who have, in recent times, harassed ciswomen in women’s restrooms by angrily accusing them of being men (and in several cases physically assaulting them), and that’s not even getting into the whole “corrective rape” thing transwomen have been prey to over the years. So those cherrypicking data to tar an entire demographic might want to consider what the same technique applied to their demographic might yield. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/44 "2022-08-30T09:35:46Z")
Sure. The woman’s a Terf. The male person watching little girls get undressed is completely normal. Got it. > **[Women Seeking Civil Rights Stand Up to Mob Hatred and Intimidation in Port...](https://www.porttownsendfreepress.com/2022/08/16/women-seeking-civil-rights-stand-up-to-mob-hatred-and-intimidation-in-port-townsend/)** > > An angry white crowd screaming at a Black woman pleading for civil rights. Threatening her. Intimidating her. Senior women linking arms to protect a rape survivor trying to speak. A lesbian being s… ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/45 "2022-08-30T09:36:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Anecdotes are not data. Have some research then. > **[Half of all transgender prisoners are sex offenders or dangerous category A...](https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/)** > > The government is not recording transgender prisoners systematically. We analysed the data: half of trans 'women' inmates are high-risk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/46 "2022-08-30T09:41:31Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > The male person watching little girls get undressed is completely normal. No male person was present, let alone “watching little girls get undressed”. > [@](#): > > This release intends to provide clarification on what happened at Mountain View Pool between a pool patron and a YMCA staff member. On July 26, one of our YMCA day camp staff members accompanied 2 girls to the restroom facilities in the women’s locker room in a supervision role. At the Y, we have a “rule of 3” where staff always accompany children in a group of 3 so a staff person is never alone with a child and children are never alone with each other. > > The Y staff member and one girl were standing outside the restroom stall while the other girl was using the restroom when the patron expressed her concerns in a disrespectful manner toward the staff person, which violates the Y’s Code of Conduct. > > The Y operates in accordance with state law that gives people the right to access the locker rooms, changing rooms, and bathrooms that aligns with their gender identity, per [WAC 162-32-060.](https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=162-32-060&fbclid=IwAR22pR-XxKtf8FBpgGJX5nhQdD86lJ-2l7TPYEEfD9cDstBJzwRfXWJswoQ) > > We have the following measures in place at the Y to help protect children in our care: > > - Staff receive a background check before they are hired at the YMCA. They must pass this background check in order to work at the Y. > > - All staff complete annual training on preventing, recognizing and reporting child abuse > > - The Y prohibits staff from being alone with a child where they cannot be observed by others, for ex. Our “rule of 3”. > > - Before a person can become a member or use YMCA facilities, including the pool, our staff run each person through a software called RAPTOR that screens for sex offenders. This person was doing their job in accordance with their rights under the law and Karen, who has a documented history of spouting hateful and abusive language at staff, had no right to assault her or make accusations. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/47 "2022-08-30T09:50:17Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Sure. The woman’s a Terf. The male person watching little girls get undressed is completely normal. Got it. The woman may not be a terf. There’s nothing there to indicate she’s a feminist, radical or otherwise. She is undoubtedly an asshole, however. And apparently “trans erasing” is part of her asshole schtick. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/48 "2022-08-30T09:54:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I believe you misspelled “Karen gets kicked out after verbally assaulting female employee who was never left unattended with a minor and accusing her of being a rapist because she had a deep voice”. It’s Julie who was kicked out for being a verbally abusive asshole, if I’m following the stories correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/49 "2022-08-30T09:54:56Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Have some research then. Did you understand the research you posted? Because going from that to “Trans people are more likely to be sex offenders” does not follow. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > The male person watching little girls get undressed is completely normal. Got it. This is literally what your fellow transphobes are demanding the right to do, even attempting to enshrine it in law in some states. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/50 "2022-08-30T09:56:03Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > It’s Julie who was kicked out for being a verbally abusive asshole, if I’m following the stories correctly. I was using “Karen” in the sense of the sort of “customer” who abuses staff. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/51 "2022-08-30T10:04:17Z")
Ah. I don’t like that meme, because it tends to reinforce the idea that it’s okay for men to act privileged, but a horrible violation of norms of a woman does so. (And “asking to speak to the manager” isn’t generally abusive, it’s entitled.) But in this thread it’s also confusing, because Aspidistra made some claim about a person named Karen. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/52 "2022-08-30T10:05:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Ah. I don’t like that meme, because it tends to reinforce the idea that it’s okay for men to act privileged, but a horrible violation of norms of a woman does so. Where I work we refer to male Karens as “Kevin”. And I’d daresay that there’s a bit of wiggle room between asking to see the manager, and demanding that an employee be arrested because they must be a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/53 "2022-08-30T11:51:53Z")
This is so odd. Aphidistra has never pinged my asshole radar in the past, that I remember. I’m also always surprised when this kind of transphobia comes out of the UK (I assume, based on the -ise), because they usually seem more socially liberal. But, I guess we have several UK transphobes here, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/54 "2022-08-30T12:12:07Z")
There is a very successful effort to smear trans women in the UK right now. A friend who is closer to it than i am said there are even publicly accessible sites where the leaders of the movement discuss strategies, and what types of stories work best to spread outrage and violence against trans women. It’s a form of terrorism, but it’s rather successful. And they are sharing with their allies in the US, who include both TERFs and the (Christian) religious right. (Oddly, neither Judaism nor Islam has the same problem with transgenderism that Christianity has. The Talmud even explicitly discusses what rules apply to men who used to be women, women who used to be men, and some other unusual genders. And there was a time when Saudi Arabia was more trans-friendly than most us states.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/55 "2022-08-30T12:14:55Z")
They are just as likely to be sex offenders as any other male people are. That’s why you don’t put them in the female prison. Because they’re male. And it turns out that being sexually male is the determining factor in whether someone is more or less likely to sex offend. Not to mention of course that they can physically dominate any woman. Because they’re male. Which is why you don’t put male people in female prisons. Sex is the determinitive factor. Gender Identity means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/56 "2022-08-30T12:28:06Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > They are just as likely to be sex offenders as any other male people are. Please provide a cite for this claim. My _guess_ would be that, since many transwomen are on medication (hormones? hormone blockers?) that they would be less likely than the average cis-man, but I’m making an affirmative claim. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/57 "2022-08-30T12:34:22Z")
Even those are aren’t taking hormones are not cis men. They are not really like cis men. If you’ve ever met a trans woman before she came out (and before she sought medical treatment) you probably noticed that she was more feminine than most men. Honestly, I’ve rarely been surprised when someone comes out as trans. (And I know enough trans people that I’ve lost count.) I don’t have a cite, but I’ve heard claims that trans women are much less likely to be sexual predators than cis men, and I think that’s incredibly intuitively plausible. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/58 "2022-08-30T12:46:30Z")
This I can believe. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/59 "2022-08-30T12:51:36Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Not to mention of course that they can physically dominate any woman. Because they’re male. Which is why you don’t put male people in female prisons. Sex is the determinitive factor. Gender Identity means nothing. Whereas if you put them in male prisons, they are far, far more likely to be sexually assaulted and/or murdered. Which you’ve made very clear you’re absolutely fine with. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369/60 "2022-08-30T12:51:58Z")
Well, this is one sadly unsurprising unpleasant spiral this has taken, even if from a previously unexpected source (maybe I just had not been following their prior posts too closely)… (And yeah, really… Jesus, the whole panicked threat that this is all a plot for “males” to invade “female only spaces” for nefarious purposes… damn) Meanwhile harkening to before that happened: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I confess, I’m hoping that Mx catches on. Ms did. Mx solves even more problems. > > (It’s pronounced “mix”.) Ugh. Then again I am a known skeptic of the “x” ing of language for the sake of inclusion. I’d go revolutionary and make the standard form of address “Citizen \_\_\_\_\_” or, if that’s too French for them, y’know what, blow their minds and make it “Comrade \_\_\_\_\_”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronouns-and-idiot-fascists/970369.md?page=4)