# Pronunciation of "arse" - is the R silent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333 "2014-02-26T17:20:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/61 "2014-03-01T00:49:30Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > No the r isn’t silent. Ass (i.e. donkey and related species + the insult suggesting someone has donkey-like qualities) and arse are not pronounced the same in British (or Irish) English. True, but that does not mean that the r isn’t silent. For non-rhotic speakers, the difference lies in the vowel quality, not in a non-existent /r/ sound. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/62 "2014-03-01T00:50:07Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > No the r isn’t silent. Ass (i.e. donkey and related species + the insult suggesting someone has donkey-like qualities) and arse are not pronounced the same in British (or Irish) English. I don’t believe anyone is arguing that arse and ass are pronounced the same in RP English. They are not. The question is whether there is an /r/. In an RP accent there isn’t. However the “r” does color the sound of the “a” that precedes it. Some speakers take that to imply that they are making an “r” sound when they actually are not. [Here are some samples.](http://www.forvo.com/word/arse/#en) The first pronunciation is what we are talking about. That does not contain an “r.” The Hiberno-English pronunciation that follows most definitely does contain an “r.” As does the third one. The Australian one that follows also sounds non-rhotic to me, and then the American saying “arse” is definitely rhotic. ETA: Note the pronunciation in [Oxford’s Learners dictionary](http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/arse). There is no “r” in the UK English pronunciation of it. There is in the American English pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/63 "2014-03-01T08:05:32Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I have never heard the “parze” pronunciation either. Me neither. I have an computer OED which has samples, and sure enough it cries “parz”. The same way I would say the plural of par. Arse and farce are as expected though. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/64 "2014-03-01T09:11:06Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > Me neither. I have an computer OED which has samples, and sure enough it cries “parz”. The same way I would say the plural of par. > Arse and farce are as expected though. Or hear the [British pronunciation at Onelook dictionaries](http://www.onelook.com/?w=parse&ls=b&sourceid=Mozilla-search#) (Click Union Jack, and then clickthe loudspeaker). Or at [Cambridge Dictionaries](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/parse#) (little red loudspeaker). Or [Collins English Dictionary](http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/parse#). They all say _ **parz** _ or _ **pa:z** _. I’m not crazy, its you guys. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/65 "2014-03-01T10:57:16Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t think anyone is saying that “pass” and “parse” don’t have the same vowel sound. It is not a matter of the **r** being pronounced either. It is the final consonant that is different, as **Kiwi Fruit** pointed out. > > If anyone said “parse” to me, in conversation, but pronounced it the same as “pass”, I would almost certainly fail to understand them. Fair enough, but this thread was all about the vowel sound, so I didn’t know you were talking about something else. Weirdly, I have heard parse said aloud quite often, in RP accents too, because I studied linguistics in London, and I’ve never heard it said with the final sound voiced (can’t do ipa on my phone). But if it’s in the dictionary it must be standard RP, just one that, bizarrely, I’ve never ever heard in real life. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/66 "2014-03-02T03:08:56Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Fair enough, but this thread was all about the vowel sound, so I didn’t know you were talking about something else. > > Weirdly, I have heard parse said aloud quite often, in RP accents too, because I studied linguistics in London, and I’ve never heard it said with the final sound voiced (can’t do ipa on my phone). But if it’s in the dictionary it must be standard RP, just one that, bizarrely, I’ve never ever heard in real life. For once, we’re dealing with IPA that can be easily typed. It’s just [z] vs. [s]. Anyways, I’m surprised that there’s no one who pronounces the /r/ but without the rhotic. You know, instead of [ɚ], someone would use [ə]. At least, in my accent, if I speak slowly, I find I say [pɒːɚs], not [pɒ˞ːs] or [pɒːɒ˞s]. Is there no one who pronounces AR as [ɑə] or similar? I guess it makes sense–the schwa probably comes from the r-coloration. But somehow I got it in my head that there was some accent that just used schwas for ending /r/. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/67 "2014-03-03T13:06:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > For once, we’re dealing with IPA that can be easily typed. It’s just [z] vs. [s]. > > Anyways, I’m surprised that there’s no one who pronounces the /r/ but without the rhotic. You know, instead of , someone would use . At least, in my accent, if I speak slowly, I find I say [ps], not [ps] or [ps]. Is there no one who pronounces AR as or similar? > > I guess it makes sense–the schwa probably comes from the r-coloration. But somehow I got it in my head that there was some accent that just used schwas for ending /r/. True - I was still too focused on the vowel sound, which I can not only not type on my phone, but can’t even see, so your post has a lot of blanks for me. Grr (at my phone, not you; my computer too, for dying). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/68 "2014-03-03T21:34:40Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > True - I was still too focused on the vowel sound, which I can not only not type on my phone, but can’t even see, so your post has a lot of blanks for me. Grr (at my phone, not you; my computer too, for dying). Interestingly, your quote of my post shows all those blanks. Weird! I guess phones are yet another reason to use both IPA and respellings or descriptions. Hopefully there was enough info there for you to figure out what I meant. (If not, the first blank is an r-colored schwa, while the second is not r-colored.) And my other IPA is showing that I use an r-colored schwa for “parse” rather than a pure r-colored “ah” vowel. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333/69 "2014-03-05T11:09:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Interestingly, your quote of my post shows all those blanks. Weird! > > I guess phones are yet another reason to use both IPA and respellings or descriptions. Hopefully there was enough info there for you to figure out what I meant. > > (If not, the first blank is an r-colored schwa, while the second is not r-colored.) And my other IPA is showing that I use an r-colored schwa for “parse” rather than a pure r-colored “ah” vowel. New phone, and now I can see IPA, yay! It’s still very hard to type in it though. My accent does pronounce ending ar as a schwa with no r-colouring, yes. But parse is middle ar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-arse-is-the-r-silent/682333.md?page=3)