Pronunciation of CELTIC

[yojimbo]

While the original pronunciation argument is interesting the fact remains that in Ireland the way to pronounce it now is keltic. The people are called kelts.

The only time seltics and selts are used is when the Scottish football team is being talked about which is far to often IMO buts lots of people support UK clubs over here so you get used to it.

Don’t know about Scotland, Wales, Brittany etc.

[TwistofFate]

Bro. Walfrid, the founder of Celtic Football Club, pronounced it “Kel-tic” gut it was the glasweigan soft “c” sound that resulted in the “Seltic” pronounciation.

As has been already mentioned, “Seltic” for the sports, “Keltic” for everything else.

[ruadh]

@Duck Duck Goose

Sorry, I thought that was self-evident. Your friend was claiming that the “Kelt” pronunciation is a “recent invention” that dates only from 150 years ago, but it actually was the original pronunciation 2,500 years ago, was temporarily discarded in favor of “Selt” probably somewhere during the Middle Ages in Northern Europe, due to a misunderstanding concerning its translation into Latin, and only recently, within the last few decades (not 150 years) has begun to swing back the other way towards “Kelt”.

If he’s got a reference that shows that the Victorians in the middle of the 19th century were pronouncing it “Kelt” while continuing to write it “Celt”, I’d be interested in seeing it. AFAIK up until the beginnings of a more politically conscious and ethnically sensitive era in the 1960s, everybody pronounced it “Selt” because in English, a beginning “c” followed by an “e” is always pronounced “s”.

No, maybe I didn’t explain it well. His argument is that it was always pronounced “Selt” in English until recent moves to change it to “Kelt” on the grounds that that was the original Greek pronunciation. IOW, nobody gave a monkey’s how the Greeks pronounced it until recently. I was guessing at 150 years; in fact, looking back over the last email I got from him on the subject, he notes that it was pronounced “Selt” as recently as the 1950s.

As far as

The point anymore is to be more politically correct and ethnically sensitive, and to pronounce names the way their originators expected them to be pronounced

my question is, whose point? We’d have to completely change our language around if we were to start pronouncing words the way they were pronounced in the language they originated from.

Twisty:

Bro. Walfrid, the founder of Celtic Football Club, pronounced it “Kel-tic” gut it was the glasweigan soft “c” sound that resulted in the “Seltic” pronounciation.

This is a myth, according to my historian friend.

[phouka]

@Duck Duck Goose

The “correct” pronunciation of “Quebec”–in the current English tradition–is “Qwebec”. The correct pronunciation in French is “Kebeck”. So should we keep on pronouncing it “Qwebec”? Or should we all learn to pronounce it as the Quebecois wish it to be pronounced?

Case in point. Honestly, I can’t remember if the French originally pronounced it /KW/ and ended up dropping the W a couple hundred years after the Norman invasion, or if it started off /K/ and the English went their own way. At any rate, the growning gulf between Anglo-Norman French and Paris French is one reason Anglo-Norman finally dropped out of the race and Middle English became the language of England. Far be it from me to tell some Quebecois that they’ve got the incorrect pronunciation.

[Futile_Gesture]

@ruadh

Ponster, the “joke” is that a lot of Glaswegians tend to slur their words so that it does indeed sound like “Sellick”.

Tsk. I would expect better of you ruadh, than this lazy explanation. It’s nothing to do with ‘tending to slur’. It’s the good old Glaswegian glottal stop that’s swallowing the ‘t’, so to anyone unfamiliar with the accent wouldn’t realise it’s there.

It also bugs Celtic supporters when you spell it that way, which is as good a reason as any.

[BMalion]

True story:

Being the good field investigator that I am, and having had this same argument with my Irish/Scottish friends. While on a tour I took my tape recorder to Ireland and I have, on tape, a group of little Irish schoolgirls on a field trip to the National Museum, Kildare st. Dublin.

Me: “So, what is this?” pointing at the Tara Brooch

Little Irish Schoolgirl “Um, it’s a famous, um, piece of Seltic jewellry.”

I bring this tape out whenever someone brings up the Greek pronunciation.

I know the greek-thing is right I just enjoy messin’ with folks.

[ruadh]

@Futile Gesture

Tsk. I would expect better of you ruadh, than this lazy explanation. It’s nothing to do with ‘tending to slur’. It’s the good old Glaswegian glottal stop that’s swallowing the ‘t’, so to anyone unfamiliar with the accent wouldn’t realise it’s there.

I was slurring my explanation

It also bugs Celtic supporters when you spell it that way, which is as good a reason as any.

I know maybe one or two Celtic supporters who are bugged by it. A lot of us sometimes do it ourselves.