# Pronunciation of "Gotham" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231 "2015-01-07T16:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/21 "2015-01-07T20:44:08Z")
I should that when I was growing up in New England, we would have pronounced it more like GAW-th’m. But I’ve been gone a long time and most of that accent is gone for me. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/22 "2015-01-07T21:06:47Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > :smack: > > Got it. I’m still with you on your initial reply. Bother and father rhyme? This illustrates the essential difficulty with describing how you pronounce something by comparing it to some other word when the discussion involves multiple nationalities. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/23 "2015-01-07T21:15:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I’m still with you on your initial reply. Bother and father rhyme? This illustrates the essential difficulty with describing how you pronounce something by comparing it to some other word when the discussion involves multiple nationalities. **Thudlow** was basically trying to say that froth is more of a “frawth” sound (like bother) whereas goth is more of a “gahth” sound (like father). And yes, the multiple nationalities bit is tricky. I still am not sure how cot and caught sound differently either. I suspect it’s the same as above: cot/father caught/bother. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/24 "2015-01-07T21:29:32Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > **Thudlow** was basically trying to say that froth is more of a “frawth” sound (like bother) whereas goth is more of a “gahth” sound (like father). > > And yes, the multiple nationalities bit is tricky. > > I still am not sure how cot and caught sound differently either. I suspect it’s the same as above: cot/father caught/bother. In my version of english, cot sounds like bother and caught sounds like court. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/25 "2015-01-07T21:36:08Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I still am not sure how cot and caught sound differently either. I suspect it’s the same as above: cot/father caught/bother. I posted [this audio sample of me](http://www.peterpawinski.com/cotcaught.mp3) pronouncing cot/hot and caught/fought for elucidation. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/26 "2015-01-07T21:44:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I’m still with you on your initial reply. Bother and father rhyme? This illustrates the essential difficulty with describing how you pronounce something by comparing it to some other word when the discussion involves multiple nationalities. Quite right. But always fun as we “talk” past each other in this non-audio medium. And yes, to this western-US raised person, bother & father are indistinguishable after the initial consonant. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/27 "2015-01-07T23:17:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Same here, but this varies by dialect. In dialects with the cot/caught merger, there is no distinction between what you are calling the “ah” and “aw” sounds (and, hence, “cot” and “caught” are pronounced the same way. My dialect maintains a distinction between these two sounds.) One of the first things I thought when reading this thread was that hey, “goth” and “moth” don’t rhyme! It’s the cot/caught merger thing. I guess I’m a bit annoyed somtimes with all the Californians who come over to the east coast and act like English has only two or three vowels because they’ve merged them all. No self-respecting New Jerseyite would claim that goth and moth rhyme, or for that matter, that “ferry”, “scary”, and “parry” rhyme (Mary/marry/merry merger). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/28 "2015-01-08T00:45:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I posted [this audio sample of me](http://www.peterpawinski.com/cotcaught.mp3) pronouncing cot/hot and caught/fought for elucidation. Yeah, interesting. I hear the same distinction (even more distinction actually) in people from Michigan and upstate New York. To me all these vowels are the same and sound like your “caught.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/29 "2015-01-08T03:34:29Z")
You know, it’s kind of surreal to me that a thread on the SDMB about the pronunciation of something has gotten this far without somebody claiming it should be “Throatwarbler Mangrove”… ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/30 "2015-01-11T06:12:11Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > **Thudlow** was basically trying to say that froth is more of a “frawth” sound (like bother) whereas goth is more of a “gahth” sound (like father). > > And yes, the multiple nationalities bit is tricky. > > I still am not sure how cot and caught sound differently either. I suspect it’s the same as above: cot/father caught/bother. Not for me – Gotham, father, bother and cot are the same. Caught and froth are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/31 "2015-01-11T06:25:58Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Not for me – Gotham, father, bother and cot are the same. Caught and froth are the same. We welcome your Canadian passport application. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/32 "2015-01-11T16:49:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I should that when I was growing up in New England, we would have pronounced it more like GAW-th’m. But I’ve been gone a long time and most of that accent is gone for me. Nah. More like gawth-m. The syllable breaks after the t, not before. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/33 "2015-01-11T17:11:01Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Nah. More like gawth-m. The syllable breaks after the t, not before. Debatable. > [@gigi](#): > > Not for me – Gotham, father, bother and cot are the same. Caught and froth are the same. Ah you a native New Hampshah-ite? 'Cause I wouldn’t expect one to pronounce the first vowel in “father” and “brother” the same. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/34 "2015-01-11T21:22:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Debatable. > > Ah you a native New Hampshah-ite? 'Cause I wouldn’t expect one to pronounce the first vowel in “father” and “brother” the same. No, no – father and bother are the same. Brother is like another, or mother. (I’m from NYS, raised by Pennsylvanian parents.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/35 "2015-01-11T21:29:27Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > No, no – father and bother are the same. Brother is like another, or mother. > > (I’m from NYS, raised by Pennsylvanian parents.) My bad. We New Englanders tend to misplace our "r"s. But still, you wouldn’t find most New Englanders pronouncing “father” and “bother” the same. Where most Americans pronounce a “short o”, we pronounce it more like “aw”. A “tarp” is a “tahp” and “top” is “tawp”. Don’t bahthah with that stain on the tawp of the tahp. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/36 "2015-01-12T04:15:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > My bad. We New Englanders tend to misplace our "r"s. But still, you wouldn’t find most New Englanders pronouncing “father” and “bother” the same. Where most Americans pronounce a “short o”, we pronounce it more like “aw”. > > A “tarp” is a “tahp” and “top” is “tawp”. > > Don’t bahthah with that stain on the tawp of the tahp. 🙂 It’s been enough years here that I have gotten used “potty”=party and “my aren’t”=my aunt. I even slip and say “gararge” myself. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/37 "2015-01-12T10:37:30Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > One of the first things I thought when reading this thread was that hey, “goth” and “moth” don’t rhyme! It’s the cot/caught merger thing. I’m tuned in to the cot/caught merger thing, but it does sometimes come up in unexpected places. Like it makes sense that some areas pronounce cot and caught the same, and some don’t, but why would some areas also pronounce goth and moth differently? Are there places in the US where goth, moth and soap have the same vowel sound? At least everyone’s agreed that the OP was wrong that the “am” in Gotham does not need to be pronounced like it was a slice if cooked pig. ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/38 "2015-01-12T10:48:15Z")
Have you never seen any of the Batman movies? ---
**Author:** ![vomit\_comet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vomit\_comet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vomit_comet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/39 "2015-01-12T10:53:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > My bad. We New Englanders tend to misplace our "r"s. But still, you wouldn’t find most New Englanders pronouncing “father” and “bother” the same. Where most Americans pronounce a “short o”, we pronounce it more like “aw”. > > A “tarp” is a “tahp” and “top” is “tawp”. > > Don’t bahthah with that stain on the tawp of the tahp. I usually have a laugh when Tim from Moonshiners says “Kaw” like he’s using onomatopoeia for the sound a crow makes but he’s actually saying “car”. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231/40 "2015-01-12T14:13:16Z")
The world would be a much poorer place if we all had the same accents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-gotham/709231.md?page=3)