# Pronunciation of "parmesan" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2026, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593 "2026-03-19T21:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/61 "2026-03-20T19:36:41Z")
There’s also a strong incentive to make pronunciations conform to spelling, viz. “often” with a T. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/62 "2026-03-20T19:37:50Z")
Well, maybe it kind of is - if I remember correctly, you’re from NYC, right? Some (many?) of those people might not be saying _parmesan_ at all. They might be saying _parmigiano_, and dropping the last vowel which is common in Southern Italian dialects ( and therefore lots of NYC Italian-Americans) Do you hear _manicot’_ or _manicotti_ ? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/63 "2026-03-20T19:50:06Z")
It strikes me that it isn’t a great elision from the Italian ‘gi’ in “parmigiano” to a ‘zh’ (maybe as noted above there are regional differences in Italian pronunciations), and that it came into the US pronunciation through Italian immigrants. But the UK could more likely have adopted a pronunciation through French usage, ending up with British English sounds very similar to “partisan”. Now, about “Pa-REE-zhun”…😉 ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/64 "2026-03-20T20:07:19Z")
And don’t get me started on “Bei-ZHing”. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/65 "2026-03-20T20:13:03Z")
How ought an American, or a UK person, pronounce Beijing? That’s not a trap; I genuinely don’t know. And this cuts to the heart of whether we’re trying to duplicate the sounds a native Chinese speaker from the capital region would use, or we’re trying to use the closest sounds that fit our own accent, or we’re trying to treat this as a loan word being incorporated into English and then pronounce that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/66 "2026-03-20T20:27:45Z")
As far as I know and say it “bay-jing”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/67 "2026-03-20T21:08:26Z")
Capt. Pike just pronounced parmesan as “par-mə-zhahn” on SNW. (I’m binging.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/68 "2026-03-20T21:42:22Z")
That’s also how the characters pronounced Gene Parmesan’s name on _Arrested Development_. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/69 "2026-03-20T22:31:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Beijing In this particular case, you got lucky… it’s pretty much the same in English as it is in Mandarin, minus the tones. Bae (as in baby) - jing (rhymes with king). That’s pretty much how it sounds in Mandarin too. (What @pulykamell said) > [@pulykamell](#): > > We got our signals crossed here. And got it, thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/70 "2026-03-20T22:33:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > we’re trying to treat this as a loan word being incorporated into English and then pronounce that. On this part though, as it relates to the OP, that’s what interesting about parmesan in particular. It’s not really a loan word from Italian, but more from French, and ended up being a butchered “hyperforeignism” of both combined, as @Johanna said (learned a new word!) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/71 "2026-03-20T23:08:41Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Well, maybe it kind of is - if I remember correctly, you’re from NYC, right? I’ve lived on the West Coast my whole life and I have always heard as it as zhan and, to the best of my recollection, NEVER zan or san. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2026, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/72 "2026-03-20T23:45:41Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Beijing Huh, you know what, I was just reading the Wikipedia article on [hyperforeignisms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperforeignism?wprov=sfla1), and Beijing came up there (maybe that’s why you asked?): > [Mandarin Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese) names like _[Beijing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing)_ (with [[tɕ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_affricate)], which sounds like [[dʒ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_postalveolar_affricate)] to English speakers) with /[ʒ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_postalveolar_fricative)/: [/beɪˈʒɪŋ/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English).[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperforeignism#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWells1982108-2)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperforeignism#cite_note-FOOTNOTEJandaJosephJacobs199480-8) I cannot read IPA but maybe they are talking about the “j” sound. In Mandarin it just sounds like the j of “jinx” or “jingle”, not anything special. Maybe some people “hyper-pronounce” it differently, like “beige-ing”? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/73 "2026-03-21T00:47:20Z")
Thanks. @markn_1 evidently had some very specific ideas on what ought not be done. So I was hoping he could say what ought be done. No answer yet from him. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2026, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/74 "2026-03-21T01:18:09Z")
Zh pronunciation for me. Except around my mom; she (jokingly) calls it Paramecium. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2026, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/75 "2026-03-21T02:49:19Z")
Yes, as Reply said, I was referring to the hypercorrected pronunciation of “Beijing” that uses /ʒ/ (as in “beige” or “pleasure”), when the closest English consonant is actually /dʒ/, the consonant of “jinx”. No Mandarin word contains the /ʒ/ of “beige”; that’s not a phoneme that appears in that language. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2026, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/76 "2026-03-21T11:14:43Z")
Yep. Spot the flaw in this syllogism: French is a foreign language. Chinese is a foreign language too. Ergo, Chinese is pronounced like French. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2026, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/77 "2026-03-21T12:53:15Z")
Hmm… 🤔 Got it! It’s French that should be pronounced like Chinese? Bonjour should sound more like Beijing? Bahn-zuh, ma-da-muh. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/78 "2026-03-22T03:15:44Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > French /ʒ/ Help me out here. I listened to a pronunciation guide and I can’t tell the difference between that and /ʐ/ ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/79 "2026-03-22T05:42:38Z")
I think the difference is /ʐ/ is articulated with the tongue in a retroflex position: curled upward with the tip touching the hard palate. English doesn’t have any retroflex consonants, so it may be hard for an English speaker to hear the difference. > **[Voiced retroflex fricative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_retroflex_fricative)** > > A voiced retroflex sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound, used in some spoken languages. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents this sound is ⟨ʐ⟩. Like all the retroflex consonants, the IPA symbol is formed by adding a rightward-pointing hook extending from the bottom of a z (the letter used for the corresponding alveolar consonant). > Features of a voiced retroflex sibilant: > In the following transcriptions, diacritics may be used to distinguish between apic... ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/80 "2026-03-22T12:48:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > There’s also a strong incentive to make pronunciations conform to spelling Daffy English knights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593.md?page=5)