# Pronunciation of "parmesan" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2026, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593 "2026-03-19T21:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/81 "2026-03-22T15:27:05Z")
I didn’t says always! It also goes the other way: all thru the nite. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardFound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@EdwardFound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardFound)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/82 "2026-03-22T16:11:10Z")
This depends on what universe you’re in. Rick and Morty once moved with the family to a dimension that is like ours in every way except that they pronounce “parmesan” as “par-mee-zee-an”. [https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Parmesan\_Dimension](https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Parmesan_Dimension) ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/83 "2026-03-22T18:20:36Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > English doesn’t have any retroflex consonants, Several English dialects have a retroflex approximant (the typical “American” R). Thinking /ʒ/ while in the position for /ɻ/ works pretty well for me to produce /ʐ/. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/84 "2026-03-22T22:15:40Z")
I only recently (though my best friend) was turned on that joke. I love it because it suggests that universe spells it the way I always want to spell it. That /ʒ/ makes me think it should be spelled **parmesian**. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2026, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/85 "2026-03-22T22:23:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That /ʒ/ makes me think it should be spelled **parmes** i **an**. That sounds like someone from an Ohio suburb. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2026, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/86 "2026-03-23T12:50:09Z")
Parmesian would not be so wrong if only the place in Italy was named Parmes or Parmesia. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2026, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/87 "2026-03-23T13:07:09Z")
I would pronounce “parmesian” /paɻ ‘mi zjən/. (Maybe /paɻ ‘mi ʒən/, but certainly I’d accent the second syllable.) ---
**Author:** ![Ian29](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@Ian29](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian29)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/88 "2026-03-25T14:52:01Z")
As an English person I, and everyone I know, pronounces it parm-e-zan - we don’t pronounce the last syllable _zhan._ It’s probably an American thing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/89 "2026-03-25T15:05:46Z")
/ʐ/ is retroflex—tongue curled upward, pointing toward the roof of the mouth. The tongue position for /ʒ/ is the same as for /ʃ /. Retroflex consonants are not very common in general American or standard British accents. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/90 "2026-03-25T15:08:03Z")
The “typical” American rhotic consonant is more alveolar /ɹ/ rather than retroflex. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/91 "2026-03-25T15:58:02Z")
A little bit of research shows that the American R is generally post-alveolar (somewhere between alveolar and retroflex). We’re both wrong! Still, I think saying “zh” from the position of an American R yields a pretty good approximation of /ʐ/. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/92 "2026-03-25T20:45:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > /ʐ/ is retroflex—tongue curled upward, pointing toward the roof of the mouth. What are the most widely-known languages that use that sound? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/93 "2026-03-25T20:50:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > ʐ The already-posted link (thanks, Discourse) [Voiced retroflex fricative - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_retroflex_fricative) has a list, but several of these seem to be cases where it’s an allophone of /ʒ/ or dialectal or otherwise not consistently understood as retroflex. Russian, Polish, and Spanish, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2026, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/94 "2026-03-25T23:32:15Z")
Then what’s the point of using such a specialized symbol? You might as well use /ʒ/. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2026, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/95 "2026-03-26T12:06:05Z")
I see what your saying. What I was thinking, and didn’t articulate well (or at all; I’m sick and my head weighs 372 pounds) was an exaggerated American R, already post-alveolar, like a stereotypical pirate “ARRR”, would move the tongue back into a retroflex position. From there articulating a “zh” would get us the appropriate sound. Indeed, I think to most Americans, the Chinese “zh” sound sounds a lot like “rzh”. I tend to view these things from the perspective of how I would teach a student to make that sound (I teach voice) and that’s how I’d do it. Not that my American students are clamoring to sing that much Chinese rep. My Chinese students do, but they don’t need my help ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/96 "2026-03-28T01:26:09Z")
Well, as a matter of natural human language functions, most of us cannot distinguish sounds that we didn’t learn as phonemes during early language acquisition. So most of us can’t distinguish most close pairs of sounds that have symbols in the IPA. So there’s nothing wrong with not hearing the difference between ʐ and ʒ. I probably couldn’t except in very isolated conditions, intentionally trying to hear the difference. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/97 "2026-04-08T10:41:31Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > What are the most widely-known languages that use that sound? Tamil (and other Dravidian languages). _sodl_ = rice: SOH-duhl, with the tongue curled a little backwards against the roof of the mouth for that “l”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/98 "2026-04-08T21:41:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So there’s nothing wrong with not hearing the difference between ʐ and ʒ. I probably couldn’t except in very isolated conditions, intentionally trying to hear the difference. It’s very rare among languages of the world to have both /ʐ/ and /ʒ/ in the same phoneme inventory. Meaning you need to hear the difference to tell certain different words apart. Very few people in the world have ever needed to learn to hear the difference between ʐ and ʒ. Yous are in good company. A whole lot of good company. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2026, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/99 "2026-04-12T16:08:53Z")
I’m no dialect/accent coach but if you’re going to be teaching an accent for performance you need to be able to learn these fine distinctions and teach them as well. If you are teaching an accent that uses ʐ, then you need to get closer to it than ʒ, because it won’t sound authentic if you just replace ʐ with ʒ. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2026, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593/100 "2026-04-13T08:55:15Z")
> [@EdwardFound](#): > > This depends on what universe you’re in. Rick and Morty once moved with the family to a dimension that is like ours in every way except that they pronounce “parmesan” as “par-mee-zee-an”. Like ours in every way because they pronounce “parmesan” the way my mid-west parents did. Typical R&M joke (ie, cruel) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-parmesan/1028593.md?page=6)