# Pronunciation of Setswanan Honorifics (No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 14, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395 "2009-03-14T04:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/1 "2009-03-14T04:02:12Z")
The thread about the upcoming debut of the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency film on HBO reminded me of a question I’ve had through my reading of the series, and I know someone on the Dope can school me. What is the proper pronunciation of Mma, as Mma Ramotswe, Mma Makutski, etc. and Rra, as in Rra J.L.B. Matekoni? In my head I’ve been pronouncing them as MimAH and AreAH respectively, but my guess is that’s not quite right. ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/2 "2009-03-14T09:14:09Z")
This probably isn’t very helpful, but I’ll post it just to bump your thread. I’m currently learning Coptic, which is late old Egyptian (before Arabic became the national language) and which has elements of Semitic (eg, Hebrew, Arabic) and Hamitic (more southern African) language families. Coptic has a sort of non-vowel that comes before certain consonants, and in Coptic those might be pronounced (in my very inexperienced opinion, mind) as “uMma” and “uRra”. I’m sure someone else will come along and correct me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/3 "2009-03-14T13:36:20Z")
No real advice, but in my experience with Bantu languages an extra “M” is usually pronounced as a brief “mmm.” The kind of “mmm” that you’d use to consider something or say “mmhmm” with, but very quickly in a way that lets the next consonant kind of pop. Think of it as the way that people say “goodbye” at the end of a casual phone call. Often it’s kind of “mmbye.” ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/4 "2009-03-14T13:51:35Z")
Last time I was in Botswana was a few years back, but my memory tells me that they are basically pronounced Ma and Ra, one syllable. As my erstwhile Cameroonian, and now Chinese, colleague says above, the M and the R are slightly extended, in a way that is difficult to express by typing. I think they are honorifics, so would translate something like Madam and Sir. **MerryMagdalen** , whilst Setswana is a Bantu language and not Hamitic, I’m fascinated to know why you’re learning Coptic? ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/5 "2009-03-14T14:14:24Z")
The audio books of this series are quite good and read by a woman, I believe, from Africa, and she pronounces it with a slightly extended “mmm” sound, and when the entire name is spoken she tends to run the honorific and the name together into one fluid sound. Generally when they are spoken on their own, the “m” sound is held approximately twice as long as the average English speaker would hold it when pronouncing “ma.” Roughly the same holds for “Rra.” ---
**Author:** ![MerryMagdalen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@MerryMagdalen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MerryMagdalen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/6 "2009-03-14T17:20:10Z")
\ **Petrobey M.** , it’s because I’m a Near East studies major, with a focus on the ancient. I’d like to focus on Egypt as much as possible, but the program itself focuses more on Hebrew and the guy who teaches hieroglyphic writing isn’t teaching right now. So Coptic it is! \ ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/7 "2009-03-15T08:52:28Z")
Thank you all for the answers and the interesting sideline into Bantu vs. Hamitic vs. Semitic language, which is something that fascinates me and that I hope to research more about one day, when I have the time, perhaps in my dotage. ---
**Author:** ![rnunn2302](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@rnunn2302](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rnunn2302)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/8 "2010-03-26T01:08:48Z")
I had to research the same thing and the simplest explanation I found was that Mma is pronounced like the map without the p. I know when I was trying to figure it out the M I got but was it a long, short, hard or soft A…? That’s what got me before I found a pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/9 "2010-03-26T02:20:19Z")
From the TV series, it definitely sounds like ma (“Ma, ma, where’s my pa?”) and ra (“We want a sun god, ra, ra, ra”) with the consonant held just a bit longer than in English. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/10 "2010-03-26T04:09:28Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > From the TV series, it definitely sounds like ma (“Ma, ma, where’s my pa?”) and ra (“We want a sun god, ra, ra, ra”) with the consonant held just a bit longer than in English. It’s a great series. I watched every episode on HBO. I heard the book was good as well. They call woman Ma. ---
**Author:** ![alsoknownas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@alsoknownas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alsoknownas)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/11 "2010-03-26T21:54:59Z")
Mma is basically Ma but with a suddenly shortened ‘a’ (the map without a p description was spot on). Rra is the same, but the r is very often rolled with the tongue at the front end and top of the mouth. edited to add: It’s hard to transate to english pronounciations, but the Mm gives a stress to the ‘m’ sound, so for Mma, dwell on the ‘m’ for a little. ---
**Author:** ![unclelem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ac91a4/32.png) [@unclelem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclelem)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-setswanan-honorifics-no-1-ladies-detective-agency/489395/12 "2010-03-26T22:39:27Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > It’s a great series. I watched every episode on HBO. I heard the book was good as well. They call woman Ma. However, if you watch the “extras” on the DVD collection, someone (sorry I forget who exactly) commented that they were upset because the actors incorrectly pronounced these words, and that it was a shame considering all of the other efforts that had been made to be authentic.