# Pronunciation of the surname "Boehner" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442 "2010-11-04T12:30:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/1 "2010-11-04T12:30:16Z")
I would pronounce this name “Boner.” But U.S. Senator John A. Boehner pronounced it “BAY-ner.” Does anyone know what country this surname comes from, how it is pronounced there and how it is normally pronounced in the U.S.? If the normal pronunciation is not “BAY-ner” then does anyone know who in John Boehner’s family changed the pronunciation (i.e. was it he or one of his ancestors)? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/2 "2010-11-04T12:35:57Z")
Clearly a Germanic language, with the “oe” being an englishification of the o-umlaut. So it’s not quite the long-“o” sound, nor the long-“a” sound. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/3 "2010-11-04T12:44:31Z")
The German pronunciation is closer to ‘Burner’ where the ur sound is sort of swallowed. Not easy for the non-teutonic to correctly pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/4 "2010-11-04T13:06:46Z")
Agreed that it is German. The German pronunciation is close to a long A. To my ear, it sounds like a cross between a long A, and a “eh” sound. It is not a true case of anglicizing the name, like Smith for Schmidt, or Vienna for Wien would be. “oe” “ae” “ue” are standard substitutions in German when the umlauted vowels are not supported by a font. The Germans I know will make the substitution without a second thought, just as writing an Eszett (beta) for “ss”. These vowel combinations do not occur in German, so the implied umlaut is unambiguous. It goes back at least to the days of telegrams. Even though the Germans had Morse code characters for the umlauted vowels, the receiving telegrapher of an international cable likely wouldn’t know them, and would not have them on his mill. It is worth noting that in international Morse code, “E” is the fastest possible letter, being a single dit, so there was very little bandwidth increase for sending two letters instead of the umlauted vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/5 "2010-11-04T13:11:20Z")
I would just add to this that in a speech by Adm. Hyman Rickover, he brought up the name [Johann Wolfgang von] Goethe, and he pronounced it as “gate-uh.” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/6 "2010-11-04T13:23:40Z")
Jimmy Kimmel did a whole schtick Tuesday night about Boner vs. Baner ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/7 "2010-11-04T14:07:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The German pronunciation is closer to ‘Burner’ where the ur sound is sort of swallowed. Not easy for the non-teutonic to correctly pronounce. So What you’re saying is that people who address Mr. Boehner will need to do some swallowing? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/8 "2010-11-04T14:26:03Z")
If memory serves, when he first won the post of minority leader, he had been opposed by a Rep. Stoner. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/9 "2010-11-04T14:27:29Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > So What you’re saying is that people who address Mr. Boehner will need to do some swallowing? I’m mentally 12 years old and this one made me laugh. BTW, is there any possibility in the future for a Boehner vs Wiener debate? That would be one hot debate. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/10 "2010-11-04T14:55:33Z")
In American English, the “bay” sound [eɪ] is not unheard of as a substitution for the German [ø] vowel (spelled in German orthography as _oe_ or _ö_. > [@Kevbo](#): > > It goes back at least to the days of telegrams. Even though the Germans had Morse code characters for the umlauted vowels, the receiving telegrapher of an international cable likely wouldn’t know them, and would not have them on his mill. It is worth noting that in international Morse code, “E” is the fastest possible letter, being a single dit, so there was very little bandwidth increase for sending two letters instead of the umlauted vowel. It goes back a lot further than that. The two-dotted umlaut _originated_ as a tiny minuscule _e_ written above the letter. In traditional German script, the lower-case _e_ looked like two vertical lines connected by a thin diagonal - very much line a minuscule _n_. It gradually reduced to two lines and then two dots. See – [Umlaut (diacritic) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umlaut_%28diacritic%29#History_2) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/11 "2010-11-04T15:12:42Z")
IIRC, Matt Groening, cartoonist and genius, also pronounces his name Graining. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/12 "2010-11-04T15:17:14Z")
This is also related to Wayne Newton’s abominable pronunciation of Danke Schön, usually rendered as Danke Schoen. There is a street outside St. Louis called Spoede that the locals call “SPAY-dee.” I do not speak German but I have been to Germany and the sound is a bit like an “o” but with slightly pursed lips. To a non-German speaker this might sound a _little_ like an English long “a”, but if you’ve ever heard a German say, “danke schön” I don’t see how you would ever think it sounds like “danke shayn.” Here is [a page with two native speakers](http://www.forvo.com/word/dankesch%C3%B6n/)saying it. The vowel sound in Boehner should be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/13 "2010-11-04T15:26:06Z")
In the eighties everybody in Ohio referred to him as Boner; including himself. But that shouldn’t be a surprise if you come from that area of Ohio, they pretty much bastardize all foreign names. For example, people look at you strange if you don’t pronounce the Ohio town of Versailles as Ver-Sales.:smack: And they will correct you until you pronounce the correct way.:smack::smack: Likewise Lima is pronuced Lie-Ma and Russia is pronounced Roo-sha. :eek: So it’s no wonder the guy just gave up and let the hicks call him Boner; I’ve known other Boehner’s in Ohio that gave up as well. I don’t care for SOB, but I have other bones to pick with him and don’t don’t need to resort to name calling. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/14 "2010-11-04T15:28:51Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I do not speak German but I have been to Germany and the sound is a bit like an “o” but with slightly pursed lips. It’s like an [e] – similar to the vowel in “fate” – with rounded lips. So, really, Boehner’s pronunciation is a logical choice. > [@](#): > > The vowel sound in Boehner should be the same. You can’t make people who don’t speak German pronounce things like the do in German. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/15 "2010-11-04T15:30:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > IIRC, Matt Groening, cartoonist and genius, also pronounces his name Graining. Or as Matt was fond of explaining in his earlier books ([School is Hell, Love is Hell, Life is Hell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_in_Hell)); rhythms with complaining. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/16 "2010-11-04T15:47:54Z")
I grew up in a German inhabited section of St. Louis with kids named Koenig (KAY-nig), Poehling (PAY-ling) and Boehm (BAME). There was one hold out name Roeder (ROW-der) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/17 "2010-11-04T16:37:12Z")
I’m still puzzled how you get that “Bay-ner” is closer to Boehner/Böhner than “burner” is. Unless you pronounce “bay” different than I do? ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/18 "2010-11-04T16:41:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The German pronunciation is closer to ‘Burner’ where the ur sound is sort of swallowed. Think of it this way: Bu[r]ner, same vowel as in Burner, but omit the r. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/19 "2010-11-04T16:41:14Z")
Before I answer that question, I am curious to know where you’re from, because a difference I. Our accents might be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442/20 "2010-11-04T16:43:48Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’m still puzzled how you get that “Bay-ner” is closer to Boehner/Böhner than “burner” is. Unless you pronounce “bay” different than I do? The “ay” for “oe” pronounciation trips me up too. I have a passing familiarity with German and would tend to pronounce “Boehner” as if it had an “ö”, which to me is more like “burner” (without the “r” sounds as I have a non-rhotic accent). I knew about Matt Groening’s pronunciation, but remember thinking how counterintuitive it was when I first heard it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-surname-boehner/559442.md?page=2)