# Pronunciation of the vowel sounds in "paw" and "bra". **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431 "2018-05-01T20:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/1 "2018-05-01T20:30:14Z")
While perusing the Wiki article on the English language, under the [vowel section](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Vowels), I noticed that there are different Received Pronunciations for paw and bra. To my American midwestern ear and voice, there is no difference. According to the link for [Open-mid back rounded vowel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel), I guess I’m saying “paw” incorrectly. Are they the same or different when you speak them? Poll coming. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/2 "2018-05-01T20:32:06Z")
Sound the same to me. I’m from Northeast Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/3 "2018-05-01T20:38:06Z")
I’m also from NE Ohio. They are very different. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/4 "2018-05-01T20:38:43Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > According to the link for [Open-mid back rounded vowel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel), I guess I’m saying “paw” incorrectly. It’s not a matter of “correct” or “incorrect” – in your particular American dialect, those two vowels are merged. We’ve had a few past threads in here about the “[caught/cot merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot%E2%80%93caught_merger)”. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/5 "2018-05-01T20:47:28Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > While perusing the Wiki article on the English language, under the [vowel section](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Vowels), I noticed that there are different Received Pronunciations for paw and bra. To my American midwestern ear and voice, there is no difference. According to the link for [Open-mid back rounded vowel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel), I guess I’m saying “paw” incorrectly. > > Are they the same or different when you speak them? Poll coming. Very different. My pronunciation is fundamentally Southern, with some mild adulterations from other places I’ve lived. The southern “aw” sound is a diphthong, it changes as it goes. It starts off with the aaah sound like the a in “father” or as in “baa baa” (black sheep). Then it closes off to approximately the sound of the “o” in “boil” or “sore” except without the i or the r. So: aaaah…wwwwww IPA: ɑɔ For the sake of comparison, the folks around here (New York area) would also not pronunce “paw” and “bra” the same way. Their “aw” sound isn’t like the Southern one. It _isn’t_ a diphthong. Up here they do the “aw” sound as a pure IPA ɔ (It’s like the first sound in “ordinary” but before the “r” comes in) As for you, in order for “paw” and “bra” to have the same sound, you’re probably pronouncing “awww” the same way you pronounce “aaahh”, yes? So it has the same vowel sound as the a in father? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/6 "2018-05-01T21:06:05Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > As for you, in order for “paw” and “bra” to have the same sound, you’re probably pronouncing “awww” the same way you pronounce “aaahh”, yes? So it has the same vowel sound as the a in father? Yes. I pronounce all of those in the same manner. ---
**Author:** ![Alma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alma)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/7 "2018-05-01T21:18:24Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > To my American midwestern ear and voice, there is no difference. To my own Midwestern-raised voice, they sound pretty different in my head. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/8 "2018-05-01T21:26:12Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > It’s not a matter of “correct” or “incorrect” – in your particular American dialect, those two vowels are merged. > > We’ve had a few past threads in here about the “[caught/cot merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot%E2%80%93caught_merger)”. Interestingly enough, I pronounce paw and bra the same, but not caught and cot. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/9 "2018-05-01T21:34:55Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Interestingly enough, I pronounce paw and bra the same, but not caught and cot. Maybe having a consonant after the vowel makes a difference in your dialect. Do your pronunciations of the name of the Egyptian sun god “ **Ra** ” and the adjective “ **raw** ” sound the same or different? How about “ **knot** ” and “ **nought** ”? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/10 "2018-05-01T21:37:45Z")
Ma and pa have a bra But it’s against the law to saw a paw See different! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/11 "2018-05-01T21:39:39Z")
In my southern dialect it’s the _w_ That makes it different. I say Grandpa not Grandpaw. Paw as in a dogs foot, you say the _w_. Bra is not braw. Think cobra. Imo. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/12 "2018-05-01T22:48:58Z")
Bra and paw sound different. Paw and Pa sound different. Ra and raw sound different… However, cot and caught, tot and taught, and knot and nought sound the same. Thanks to a doper who did a recording, I’ve at least heard someone say -ot and -aught differently, but without context I had no idea which of the pair they were even saying when… ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/13 "2018-05-01T23:24:48Z")
Bra, paw, law, ha, maw, nah, gah, ta-ta, flaw, awe, jaw, saw… all the same. cot, caught, taught, brought, hot, lot, aught, ought, bot, rot… all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/14 "2018-05-01T23:38:42Z")
I am sorry, bra and jaw do not sound alike. Similar but not the same. It’s the _w_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/15 "2018-05-01T23:49:54Z")
The same, like father. It’s an a with an umlaut, phonetically. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/16 "2018-05-01T23:53:04Z")
I get a kick out of people saying “It’s the same sound as in ‘X’” when, in fact, it’s not the same at all for me. For example father and baa baa are totally different, and different from paw and Bra. Three distinct “A” sounds for me. Paw and Bra are the same to me. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/17 "2018-05-01T23:59:27Z")
These four words have different “A” sounds in my pronunciation: Father Farther Paw Baa (Like the sheep, or cat.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/18 "2018-05-02T00:11:20Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Interestingly enough, I pronounce paw and bra the same, but not caught and cot. Actually, I pronounce the vowel in paw the same as in caught, and bra is the same as cot. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/19 "2018-05-02T00:13:11Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Bra, paw, law, ha, maw, nah, gah, ta-ta, flaw, awe, jaw, saw… all the same. > > cot, caught, taught, brought, hot, lot, aught, ought, bot, rot… all the same. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/20 "2018-05-02T00:17:33Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I am sorry, bra and jaw do not sound alike. Similar but not the same. It’s the _w_ Do not sound alike in your particular region, is what you mean. These are pointless arguments, as regional accents and pronunciations differ. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431.md?page=2)