# Pronunciation of the vowel sounds in "paw" and "bra". **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431 "2018-05-01T20:30:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/121 "2018-05-18T13:33:25Z")
The same. Of course, being from central Ohio I _know_ we don’t have anything like an accent. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/122 "2018-05-18T19:21:09Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Bra, paw, law, ha, maw, nah, gah, ta-ta, flaw, awe, jaw, saw… all the same. > > cot, caught, taught, brought, hot, lot, aught, ought, bot, rot… all the same. Here’s me reading that list. Definitely _not_ all the same in my accent. There are two main vowels occuring in these lists: the ɑ sound (aah) and the aɔ diphthong sound (aww). > **[For an ongoing discussion of vowel pronunciation. these words: Bra, paw,...](https://www.facebook.com/allan.hunter.524/videos/1966837883339962/)** > > For an ongoing discussion of vowel pronunciation. > > these words: > > Bra, paw, law, ha, maw, nah, gah, ta-ta, flaw, awe, jaw, saw.... all the same. > > cot,... The most common variations between my pronunciation and that of other Americans is in the aww formulation: • some of you pronounce aww different from how you pronounce aah but you don’t do it as a diphthong but instead pronounce the aww as a pure ɔ • others among you pronounce aah and aww the same, and that “same” is apparently either ɑ or a ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/123 "2018-05-18T19:34:49Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Here’s me reading that list. Definitely _not_ all the same in my accent. There are two main vowels occuring in these lists: the ɑ sound (aah) and the aɔ diphthong sound (aww). > [For an ongoing discussion of vowel pronunciation. these words: Bra, paw, law, ha, maw, nah, gah, ta-ta, flaw, awe, jaw, saw.... all the same. cot,... | By AllanFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/allan.hunter.524/videos/1966837883339962/) > > The most common variations between my pronunciation and that of other Americans is in the aww formulation: > > • some of you pronounce aww different from how you pronounce aah but you don’t do it as a diphthong but instead pronounce the aww as a pure ɔ > > • others among you pronounce aah and aww the same, and that “same” is apparently either ɑ or a To me, it sounds like you are saying “pawl” and “lawl” for “paw” and “law” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/124 "2018-05-18T20:08:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > To me, it sounds like you are saying “pawl” and “lawl” for “paw” and “law” Except for the lack of an actual “l” consonant at the end, you mean? Yes, the vowel portion is exactly the same as how it would be if there were a trailing L in those words. For example caw (the sound a crow makes) has the exact same vowel sound (for me, in my accent) as the word caul does. And paw similarly matches the vowels in Pall Mall. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/125 "2018-05-18T20:19:44Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Except for the lack of an actual “l” consonant at the end, you mean? Yes, the vowel portion is exactly the same as how it would be if there were a trailing L in those words. For example caw (the sound a crow makes) has the exact same vowel sound (for me, in my accent) as the word caul does. And paw similarly matches the vowels in Pall Mall. No, to me it actually sounds like you are pronouncing the “l” consonant at the end. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/126 "2018-05-18T21:08:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, to me it actually sounds like you are pronouncing the “l” consonant at the end. I concur. I hear an “l” at the end, too. Maybe this is one of those Laurel/Yanny things. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/127 "2018-05-18T22:17:59Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > While perusing the Wiki article on the English language, under the [vowel section](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Vowels), I noticed that there are different Received Pronunciations for paw and bra. To my American midwestern ear and voice, there is no difference. According to the link for [Open-mid back rounded vowel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel), I guess I’m saying “paw” incorrectly. > > Are they the same or different when you speak them? Poll coming. They’re talking about “Received Pronunciation” as British RP. The posh British, basically. That’s why there are different pronunciations listed. Other accents may differ from both RP and the one they use for American, usually called GE. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/128 "2018-05-20T05:38:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, to me it actually sounds like you are pronouncing the “l” consonant at the end. I get what you mean. I think it’s a /u/ or /w/ offglide, which is close to the dark [ɫ] sound we have after vowels in English. I hear **AHunter3** ’s pronunciation of “paw” as /pɒʊ/ and this is a diphthong I’ve frankly never heard in an English dialect before. Learn something new every day. He only says it in open syllables. In closed syllables (followed by a consonant) he pronounces it /aɔ/ as he has noted. That’s another new diphthong for me. Fascinating. From Georgia, are you? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/129 "2018-05-20T07:09:55Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > People pronounce the letter of the alphabet “A” differently? As I mentioned above, people don’t actually pronounce letters at all. People pronounce words, and letters are used to represent those words in writing. The issue is that English has over 20 vowels, and only five vowel letters. The spelling conventions which represent the various vowel sounds we make are not consistent, so even though different letters may be used in writing, it does not necessarily represent a different pronunciation. Also, these threads are problematic, in my opinion, because I strongly suspect that the way posters will pronounce isolated words that they are reading in a discussion focused on those words, while they’re preoccupied with pronunciation, might not necessarily be how they actually pronounce those words in the context of everyday speech, when they’re not thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431/130 "2018-05-20T14:40:01Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I get what you mean. I think it’s a /u/ or /w/ offglide, which is close to the dark [ɫ] sound we have after vowels in English. > > I hear **AHunter3** ’s pronunciation of “paw” as /pɒʊ/ and this is a diphthong I’ve frankly never heard in an English dialect before. Learn something new every day. He only says it in open syllables. In closed syllables (followed by a consonant) he pronounces it /aɔ/ as he has noted. That’s another new diphthong for me. Fascinating. From Georgia, are you? Yep! I agree: ɒʊ is actually closer than aɔ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciation-of-the-vowel-sounds-in-paw-and-bra/813431.md?page=6)