# Pronunciations even experts disagree on **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898 "2023-01-08T23:50:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/121 "2023-01-10T01:36:38Z")
I reject the premise of this topic. Subject-matter experts aren’t necessarily any more authoritative on pronunciation than anyone else. The only relevant expert is an expert in pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/122 "2023-01-10T01:36:45Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > a “super” salad is not really a thing at fine restaurants It really should be. To precede the main course - the finest food, stuffed with the second finest. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/123 "2023-01-10T01:44:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I reject the premise of this topic. Subject-matter experts aren’t necessarily any more authoritative on pronunciation than anyone else. The only relevant expert is an expert in pronunciation. I don’t agree. For a _technical_ term, the community of experts who use the term frequently usually settle on a consensus pronunciation that the layperson may be unfamiliar with. It is interesting when and why they don’t, the premise of this thread. And I’m no sure what an “expert in pronunciation” is. Are you talking about an expert linguist who is adept at describing observed pronunciation? Because to gather data they will survey native speakers and find out how they say it, something we often do casually on here. If a linguist wants to know how a technical term is pronounced, in just the same way they will listen to the people who actually _use_ the word - which means the experts in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/124 "2023-01-10T01:52:36Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > For a _technical_ term, the community of experts who use the term frequently usually settle on a consensus pronunciation And the person to consult about that consensus is an expert in linguistics. Only if linguists can’t agree is there any disagreement among relevant experts, and, as you point out, linguists, if they’re doing their jobs right, are just going to describe the data, so unless there is a problem with the data, there will be no disagreement among experts. Thus, the premise is invalid. By definition there can’t be a disagreement among relevant experts who have valid data. Quod erat demonstrandum, muthafuckas!! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/125 "2023-01-10T01:55:21Z")
This is… less than clear, I’m not sure what quod you think you’ve demonstrandumed. If an expert linguist wants to find out the way a word is pronounced, they listen to the people who use the word. It’s an empirical question, so why shouldn’t we check some of that data ourselves directly with an ad hoc survey of pronunciation? We may later find out we’re mistaken because we aren’t an exhaustive or representative survey of the entire population of speakers, but so what? No doubt the reviewers will catch it before we try to publish our conclusions in the Journal of Ad Hoc Pronunciation Surveys. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/126 "2023-01-10T02:25:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The verb is pronounced comPACT. The noun or adjective is pronounced COMpact. > > There are a few other examples of this in English, though the only other one that comes to mind is “record”. REEsearch and reSEARCH. DeFENce and DEEfence. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/127 "2023-01-10T02:46:05Z")
A German friend pronounced WI-FI, wee fee. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/128 "2023-01-10T02:54:10Z")
Wrath is another word with multiple pronunciations. In British English it is pronounced “roth” or - apparently - “rawth”. In American English, it is prounounced “rath”. There’s also the word wroth, which essentially means the same as wrath, and is ultimately from the same Proto-Indo-European root \*wreyt- (“to turn, twist”). The General American audio pronunciation of wroth, according to Wiktionary, is “roth”, the same as British English wrath. [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrath](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wrath) [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wroth](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wroth) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/129 "2023-01-10T02:54:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The verb is pronounced comPACT. The noun or adjective is pronounced COMpact. > > There are a few other examples of this in English, though the only other one that comes to mind is “record”. A list here, there are an astonishing number. It’s one of those things where for some reason it’s hard to come up with examples when you try to think of them. > **[Initial-stress-derived noun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial-stress-derived_noun)** > > Initial-stress derivation is a phonological process in English that moves stress to the first syllable of verbs when they are used as nouns or adjectives. (This is an example of a suprafix.) This process can be found in the case of several dozen verb-noun and verb-adjective pairs and is gradually becoming more standardized in some English dialects, but it is not present in all. The list of affected words differs from area to area, and often depends on whether a word is used metaphorically or not.... ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/130 "2023-01-10T03:24:24Z")
[EBITDA](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp) is pronounced “ee-bit-dah,” unless it’s pronounced “eh-bih-duh,” or maybe “ee-bit-dee-ay”… ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/131 "2023-01-10T04:28:23Z")
Many people pronounce barbiturate as bar-bit-you-ate. A quick look at any dictionary shows that it should be pronounced as spelled: bar-bit-ur-ate. When I was growing up, the mispronunciation was the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/132 "2023-01-10T07:20:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t know about the UK, but I’ve definitely heard it said as “led” and said it that way myself before. Wiktionary gives both pronunciations: I never say “led”, but I always pronounce OLED as O-led. I guess my threshold for annoyance is between three and four letters. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/133 "2023-01-10T09:07:18Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > This is also the reason many English speakers think Iberian Spanish speakers lisp. It’s not a misconception of English speakers, if that’s what you’re saying. Nearly everyone in mainland Spain lisps when they say _cinco_ or _ceja_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/134 "2023-01-10T14:27:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > The verb is pronounced comPACT. The noun or adjective is pronounced COMpact. > > > > There are a few other examples of this in English, though the only other one that comes to mind is “record”. > > REEsearch and reSEARCH. > DeFENce and DEEfence. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/135 "2023-01-10T14:33:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This is… less than clear, I’m not sure what quod you think you’ve demonstrandumed. What I’m saying is that the people that the OP have labeled as “experts” aren’t experts in the context of the question. They’re just data. The experts in this context are the linguists that analyze the data. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/136 "2023-01-10T14:39:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What I’m saying is that the people that the OP have labeled as “experts” aren’t experts in the context of the question. They’re just data. OP did not claim otherwise. The title of the thread is misleading out of context, but if you read the body of the OP, the word “experts” in the title of the OP obviously means people with expertise in the field where the technical term is used, i.e. the people who use the term every day. It does not mean “pronunciation experts” in the sense of expert linguists. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/137 "2023-01-10T15:49:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What I’m saying is that the people that the OP have labeled as “experts” aren’t experts in the context of the question. They’re just data. The experts in this context are the linguists that analyze the data. There are certainly those who agree with you… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Jg40EjBEWM0/maxresdefault.jpg "Nothing Dear; You're not qualified") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg40EjBEWM0) ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/138 "2023-01-11T15:21:36Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I guess my threshold for annoyance is between three and four letters. AKA “Between TLAs and ETLAs”! ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/139 "2023-01-11T18:52:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I always pronounce LED as ell-eee-dee (or really, “Ellie Dee”), but I’ve heard it pronounced just as “led.” Seems to be a Britishism. I’ve heard it from native German speakers, speaking English or German. As I learned about DITA from German speakers, I always pronounced it as with a long “i”. Then I started joining webinars with English speakers and they pronounce it with a short “i”. I’ve heard SQL (the three letters) said by people from Belgium, Germany and Netherlands. It took me a while, but I finally releazed what they were saying. But that’s mainly because they say the letters differently. DITA = Darwin Information Typing Architecture ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/140 "2023-01-11T19:15:49Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > As I learned about DITA from German speakers, I always pronounced it as with a long “i”. Then I started joining webinars with English speakers and they pronounce it with a short “i”. Huh. Having never seen this acronym before, I would have thought it would be pronounced DEE-ta. The two you mentioned would never have occurred to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898.md?page=8)