# Pronunciations even experts disagree on **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898 "2023-01-08T23:50:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/141 "2023-01-11T19:16:03Z")
Pulitzer, as in the prize. Some say “pyoo-lit-zer”. Others say “pull-it-zer”. The family says it’s the latter. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/142 "2023-01-11T19:24:11Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Others say “pull-it-zer”. The family says it’s the latter. I have a weird mnemonic stuck in my head for this one, thanks to newspaper columnist Dave Barry, who used to talk about the “Pullet Surprise.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/143 "2023-01-11T21:45:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The pen/pin merger is one that always seems weird to me. Most of these examples, even if my dialect distinguishes between them, they still sound really, really close to me. But “pen” and “pin” sound nothing at all alike. Well, I mean, they’re both “p vowel n”, but it’s not something that I would ever confuse on hearing from another speaker of my dialect. ⁢ That merger is part of the local accent here. It seems to have to do with vowel narrowing before /n/. Most American accents do this to some degree with /æn/ (-an). But people around here narrow that vowel so much that they also wind up having to narrow /ɛn/ (-en) as well. I actually lost the merger due to schooling. My early elementary teachers taught phonics and insisted on a single consistent vowel for all “Short E” as well as “short i”. And I have said “pen” before and a local with the merger thought I said “pan.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/144 "2023-01-12T02:35:52Z")
Where I come from, you might think that the local football team is called the Bangles. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/145 "2023-01-12T04:10:16Z")
Manic Monday Night Football? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/146 "2023-01-12T13:16:18Z")
That’s how I say it (Chicago/Great Lakes dialect.) At least I can’t hear a difference between how I say “Bengels” and “Bangles.” ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/147 "2023-01-13T06:18:22Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Pulitzer, as in the prize. Some say “pyoo-lit-zer”. Others say “pull-it-zer”. The family says it’s the latter. Similar to Carnegie. Supposedly it’s “car-NEGG-ie”. But everyone says CAR-neh-gie. The Andrew Carnegie Foundation donates to NPR a lot - I suspect so they can have announcers say “this program is made possible by a grant from the Andrew Car-NEGG-ie Foundation”. But the other day, one of them said it the unapproved but ubiquitous way. I think it’s a losing battle. You hear that, CAR-neh-gie? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/148 "2023-01-13T06:48:19Z")
Huh - in my head it’s always been Car knee jee Hall. Whether that’s a mispronunciation of my own invention, or I heard it said that way, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/149 "2023-01-13T09:02:51Z")
Here in Western PA it’s pronounced car-NAY-gee. Pittsburgh has Carnegie Hall, the town of Carnegie, and a billion Carnegie Libraries. CAR-nuh-gee is that fancy schmancy performance hall in New York. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/150 "2023-01-13T09:45:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Gigabyte” also seems to be pronouceable with either a hard or a soft G. The same with gigawatt. See Back to the Future. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/151 "2023-01-13T10:20:47Z")
> [@alovem](#): > > It’s not a misconception of English speakers, if that’s what you’re saying. Nearly everyone in mainland Spain lisps when they say _cinco_ or _ceja_. By that logic, every English speaker lisps when saying _this, that, thanks, think_. You use your preference for how a certain letter should be pronounced and apply that to another language. Compare English and German Volkswagen, where English speakers use the V and W in the English way, whereas Germans say Folksvagen. Do you think they have some kind of speech impediment? Because that’s what you’re claiming about Spanish lisping. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/152 "2023-01-13T11:58:19Z")
You’ve got some very wrong ideas about Spanish, and that’s about all I’ve got to say. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/153 "2023-01-13T12:11:15Z")
Cairo, Egypt: ˈkaɪrəʊ Cairo, Georgia: ˈkeɪroʊ / kay-ro ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/154 "2023-01-13T13:51:31Z")
Those are different words and the experts on either all pronounce it the same way. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/155 "2023-01-13T14:18:38Z")
I don’t think it’s so much a wrong idea about Spanish as it is differing definitions of “lisp” - I know that Spaniards pronounce certain words differently than Latin Americans. But “lisp” doesn’t simply mean the “c” in certain words is pronounced as a “th” would be in English. “Lisp” means that there is a speech impediment involved , that the sound is supposed to be pronounced one way and the person is unable to do so. An entire country ( or even region) cannot have a lisp - when it’s that widespread it’s an accent or a dialect, not a speech impediment. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/156 "2023-01-13T14:41:02Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > Cairo, Egypt: ˈkaɪrəʊ > > Cairo, Georgia: ˈkeɪroʊ / kay-ro Cairo Illinois is also “KAY-ro” ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/157 "2023-01-13T15:18:34Z")
> [@Reeses\_Monkey](#): > > Here in Western PA it’s pronounced car-NAY-gee. Pittsburgh has Carnegie Hall, the town of Carnegie, and a billion Carnegie Libraries. CAR-nuh-gee is that fancy schmancy performance hall in New York. Ditto for this Northeast Ohioan. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/158 "2023-01-13T15:33:40Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I don’t think it’s so much a wrong idea about Spanish as it is differing definitions of “lisp” I think you’re bending over backwards to be even handed here. @alovem is _wrong_ to call it a lisp, notwithstanding the fact that this has been a common informal way to describe it, attributable to an urban legend about its origin. Castilian speakers do not all have a speech impediment. > **[Phonological history of Spanish coronal fricatives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives)** > > In Spanish dialectology, the realization of coronal fricatives is one of the most prominent features distinguishing various dialect regions. The main three realizations are the phonemic distinction between /θ/ and /s/ (distinción), the presence of only alveolar \[s\] (seseo), or, less commonly, the presence of only a denti-alveolar \[s̟\] that is similar to /θ/ (ceceo). > While an urban legend attributes the presence of the dental fricative to a Spanish king with a lisp, the various realizations of th... ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/159 "2023-01-13T15:58:02Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think you’re bending over backwards to be even handed here. @alovem is _wrong_ to call it a lisp, notwithstanding the fact that this has been a common informal way to describe it, attributable to an urban legend about its origin. Castilian speakers do not all have a speech impediment. 100%. When I pronounce Garbiñe Muguruza with a “tha” at the end but Paola Suárez with a “ez” at the end, do I lose my lisp mid sentence? This is a nutty, if not downright offensive, characterization. Hint: Muguruza is from Spain, Suárez is from Argentina. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898/160 "2023-01-13T17:01:09Z")
My bolding: > [@doreen](#): > > **An entire country ( or even region) cannot have a lisp** - when it’s that widespread it’s an accent or a dialect, not a speech impediment. > [@Riemann](#): > > @alovem is _wrong_ to call it a lisp, notwithstanding the fact that this has been a common informal way to describe it, attributable to an urban legend about its origin. **Castilian speakers do not all have a speech impediment.** Yes, obviously. Who in their right mind would claim otherwise? 🙄 I don’t know what urban legend you’re talking about, and I use the word lisp as a description of the consonant sound, without implying that there’s any kind of speech impediment. There’s probably a more technical word to describe it, but it’s common IME to refer to that as lisping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-even-experts-disagree-on/977898.md?page=9)