# Pronunciations which are legit but sound pretentious to outsiders **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939 "2018-11-03T18:17:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/101 "2018-11-04T23:39:00Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Wow, would you sound like an asshole. > > I know we’re talking about words that sound pretentious to the ear, but I’m really surprised that so many people here don’t just think “oh, variant pronunciation” - especially for one that most people _know_ are pronounced differently in different regions. I suspect that this is a thing about which people “know with their head” that it’s just a variant pronunciation; but they “feel with their gut” – the part of them tending toward intolerance and bigotry – that the other-than-theirs pronunciation _sounds_ pretentious and otherwise generally prattish. I’d question whether **wolfpup** would actually say in real life re the “pecan” thing, what he thinks of saying – he’d just like to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/102 "2018-11-04T23:55:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _Scent of a Woman_. Truman Capote and his rich friends were rubbing it in Robin’s face that he had to spend his Thanksgiving break being Michael Corleone’s seeing-eye dog instead of going skiing in Gdańsk with them. > Or maybe they were going to spend Thanksgiving skiing in Vermont, and mockingly asked him if he would be joining them for Christmas in Gdańsk (no). And my memory is a little hazy, but ISTR that one of the rich kids was razzing another rich kid about the way he pronounced it. > Anyway, yeah. _Scent of a Woman_. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Gstaad. Danzig isn’t exactly a ski destination. Right on both counts (thank you!) That bit of the movie was certainly about people trying to sort other people into ‘upper or lower’ class categories by a pronunciation, so …kinda on-topic. Though I can’t remember which pronunciation (“Stahd” versus “G-stahd”) was considered U and which non-U. “U” and “non-U” of course refer to British English: > [@](#): > > It is now 60 years since Nancy Mitford and others published Noblesse Oblige: An Enquiry into the Identifiable Characteristics of the English Aristocracy. This was a series of essays about upper-class English (and its opposite), known better to all of us as U and Non-U (U being upper class). > > The whole thing started with an essay by Alan S. C. Ross, Professor of Linguistics at Birmingham University, in an obscure Finnish linguistic publication. At the time, he stated that: ‘It is solely by their language that the upper classes nowadays are distinguished, since they are neither cleaner, richer nor better-educated than anyone else.’ > > How Mitford and her co-writers, Evelyn Waugh, John Betjeman (who contributed his already published poem How to Get on in Society), Christopher Sykes and ‘Strix’ (pseudonym of Peter Fleming, brother of Ian), came across the original is anyone’s guess. And I don’t think that Prof Ross actually listed all of the words unacceptable to the upper classes. … [U and Non-U, 60 years on: Is the English language still full of pitfalls?](https://www.countrylife.co.uk/country-life/u-non-u-60-years-english-language-still-full-pitfalls-147591#6RAoJjAdpWL6esxk.99) The concept of people trying to sound U and thereby engendering annoyance in their listeners does seem relevant, here. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/103 "2018-11-04T23:57:48Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I remember being taken to task by a guy when I tried to correct him on the pronunciation of “suite”. He pronounced it like “suit” instead of like “sweet” and accused me of being a snob. That’s standard Arkie - as in “bedroom suit.” Made me crazy when I moved here. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/104 "2018-11-04T23:58:28Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > Oh, that’s a classic. Brits love to get sniffy about the American silent h in “herbs”, while blithely ignoring their own failure to sound the r. > > H is a hotbed of snobbery: pronounced “aitch” like the French “hache” with its typically French dropped initial h (dare to say “haitch” and be damned forever), while “herbs” _must_ be “Herbs” because of its initial h, despite its being cognate with the French “herbes”…with (again) a silent initial h. But that doesn’t count this time. > > “An hotel” (because it historically had a silent h due to its Frenchness so the “an” made sense)…but with the h pronounced because “h dropping” is now a mark of plebby ignorance…but the “an” remains because, well, because, because they said at school that people who really know their English do it that way. > > It all gets very tiresome. A bit off-topic, but this reminds me of something I heard used to be a “thing” (and perhaps isn’t, anymore): the term properly used to refer to the color of coats worn to hunt foxes. Supposedly it was “pink” until the plebes started to say “pink,” whereupon it became “red.” Then there was some switching back and forth, over a period of years, in an attempt to leave the plebes in the dust. Funny thing, hierarchy. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/105 "2018-11-05T02:31:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Again this is why y’all need to learn IPA > > The US poster is talking about > [ænt] > > [ɑnt] > > as the alternative pronunciations of “aunt” > > The UK poster understands these to be the two pronunciations > > [ænt] > > [ant] > > “Haunt” to the UK poster is none of these vowels. > [hɔnt] The same aunt/aunt question arises in Canada as well, and the Canadian contingent of the “aunt and ant don’t rhyme” group says [ɔnt], at least as far as I can discern. Maybe I just don’t discern real good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/106 "2018-11-05T03:09:51Z")
I did a quick search and no one seems to have said this one yet: “Croissant” I once tried to order one in a bakery by asking for it with the French pronunciation. He clarified “you mean a [english speaking pronunciation of] croissant?” I just said yes and left immediately after I got it. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/107 "2018-11-05T04:14:52Z")
> [@HowSoonIsThen](#): > > I did a quick search and no one seems to have said this one yet: > > “Croissant” > > I once tried to order one in a bakery by asking for it with the French pronunciation. He clarified “you mean a [english speaking pronunciation of] croissant?” > > I just said yes and left immediately after I got it. Kroyssent, maybe? What even IS an English pronunciation of croissant? All I’ve heard here is kreSONT, which I guess is trying to avoid the tricky bit of the French pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/108 "2018-11-05T05:08:34Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Years ago, I heard Orson Welles pronounce “drama” like “Gamma,” and thought it sounded incredibly pretentious. > > Today, I heard the same thing twice watching _ **Corner Gas** _. Do people in rural Sakatchewan really talk like Orson Welles? 😕 First syllable rhyming with “ham”? Yes. Older generations 100%, youngest generation might not all agree. Also the same effect on pasta, Mazda (they can’t use the Mawzda commercials from the US, have to make new ones), and - with the generation before mine - Mexican food includes tackos. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/109 "2018-11-05T08:03:20Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Kroyssent, maybe? What even IS an English pronunciation of croissant? All I’ve heard here is kreSONT, which I guess is trying to avoid the tricky bit of the French pronunciation. I grew up in the UK, knowing it with a French(ish) sort of pronunciation. KWASSong, kind of thing. French with an English accent, I guess you could say. I had no idea anyone said it any different, till it turned up on American food shows. But then I encountered a conversation on social media (between Brits) where someone was deriding that pronunciation as really pretentious. Admittedly, others were incredulous and wondered how else it was possible to say it - I never found out - but still, it means there must be some sort of alternative in British English! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/110 "2018-11-05T08:24:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Gstaad. Danzig isn’t exactly a ski destination. :smack: You’re right, of course. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/111 "2018-11-05T12:11:11Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > “An hotel” (because it historically had a silent h due to its Frenchness so the “an” made sense)…but with the h pronounced because “h dropping” is now a mark of plebby ignorance…but the “an” remains because, well, because, because they said at school that people who really know their English do it that way. I don’t think “an hotel” is widespread in UK English. I don’t use it and my wife doesn’t (we’re both from the north-east) I did a quick show of hands of the people around me at work, (six people all south-eastern) and all of them use “a hotel”. If you are from Yorkshire then I can hear that initial “h” getting dropped and “an” getting used instead but that works for pretty much any word beginning with “h”, nothing special about “hotel” in that regard. “aye, Vitnery. young blossom’s in an 'orrible way, she’s nobbut middlin!” I have heard people use that construction in a Basil/Sybil faux-posh way but only for comic effect. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/112 "2018-11-05T12:45:06Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t think “an hotel” is widespread in UK English. I don’t use it and my wife doesn’t (we’re both from the north-east) I did a quick show of hands of the people around me at work, (six people all south-eastern) and all of them use “a hotel”. > > If you are from Yorkshire then I can hear that initial “h” getting dropped and “an” getting used instead but that works for pretty much any word beginning with “h”, nothing special about “hotel” in that regard. > > “aye, Vitnery. young blossom’s in an 'orrible way, she’s nobbut middlin!” > > I have heard people use that construction in a Basil/Sybil faux-posh way but only for comic effect. Hotel was just an example; could have been an hospital or an horrible happenstance. It’s certainly not widespread (and I doubt it ever was), but it’s certainly been a thing. The BBC are no strangers to “an historic occasion”. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/113 "2018-11-05T13:12:05Z")
I’ve just remembered a Russell Kane routine where he says “HallaPENNyoes? HallaPENNyoes?! Say jallapeenoes, you dick.” Can’t say I’m remotely close to agreeing with him, but it does suggest there’s a contingent who think a Spanish-based pronunciation is needless pretention. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/114 "2018-11-05T13:16:21Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > I’ve just remembered a Russell Kane routine where he says > > “HallaPENNyoes? HallaPENNyoes?! Say jallapeenoes, you dick.” > > Can’t say I’m remotely close to agreeing with him, but it does suggest there’s a contingent who think a Spanish-based pronunciation is needless pretention. It is something way down on my “give a fuck about” list but getting needlessly arsey about pronunciation of foreign words is a fool’s errand. We should anglicise what ever the hell we like in whatever way we like, just as other languages should do the same to English words. It’s all fine and adds to the gaiety of the nation. Imagine the French being told how to pronounce “London” ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/115 "2018-11-05T14:11:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is something way down on my “give a fuck about” list but getting needlessly arsey about pronunciation of foreign words is a fool’s errand. > > We should anglicise what ever the hell we like in whatever way we like, just as other languages should do the same to English words. It’s all fine and adds to the gaiety of the nation. > Imagine the French being told how to pronounce “London” Of course, we should anglicise to our hearts’ content; I was surprised is all. An anglicising I didn’t really know about had gained SO much ground that what I thought was normal was enough to get somebody that worked up. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/116 "2018-11-05T14:22:10Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > Of course, we should anglicise to our hearts’ content; I was surprised is all. An anglicising I didn’t really know about had gained SO much ground that what I thought was normal was enough to get somebody that worked up. Just to clarify, I don’t think we disagree at all (I certainly didn’t intend for it to come across like that) I think we are both rolling our eyes just a little at the preciousness of others. ---
**Author:** ![Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/59ef9b/32.png) [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorkshire_Pudding)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/117 "2018-11-05T14:34:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Just to clarify, I don’t think we disagree at all (I certainly didn’t intend for it to come across like that) I think we are both rolling our eyes just a little at the preciousness of others. Got you! Yes, that’s my thoughts on the matter too. I was raised in the church of pedantry so I have an instinctive feel for what’s “wrong”, but don’t construe it as such. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/118 "2018-11-05T14:54:20Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Wow, would you sound like an asshole. > > I know we’re talking about words that sound pretentious to the ear, but I’m really surprised that so many people here don’t just think “oh, variant pronunciation” - especially for one that most people _know_ are pronounced differently in different regions. You know, you don’t have to take everything that everyone says absolutely literally, especially when it’s followed by a smilie and is quite obviously just a joke. IRL, pronunciations that are non-standard to me would probably pique my curiosity to see if I could detect a regional influence and guess where the speaker might be from. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/119 "2018-11-05T14:59:17Z")
I always pronounce the “p” in rasp-berry. I don’t know why, I just do. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939/120 "2018-11-05T14:59:53Z")
> [@Yorkshire\_Pudding](#): > > Got you! Yes, that’s my thoughts on the matter too. I was raised in the church of pedantry so I have an instinctive feel for what’s “wrong”, but don’t construe it as such. I’m with you on that, accuracy in the spoken or written word is a nice thing to have but as a great woman once said, we don’t need to put it on a pedal-stool. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pronunciations-which-are-legit-but-sound-pretentious-to-outsiders/823939.md?page=7)