# Proof of Angels
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 24, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968 "2003-11-24T07:42:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Hydrocortisone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hydrocortisone)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/1 "2003-11-24T07:42:23Z")
IS this story good proof of angels? How else could she survive?
> [@](#):
>
> She says two angels stayed with her each night, emanating warmth and light.
>
> SNIP
> “I think we witnessed a true miracle,” Wallowa County Sheriff Fred Steen told the Oregonian.
>
> Nighttime temperatures dropped to at least 4 below zero in Alder Creek Canyon where Hileman lay injured for more than a week.
>
> Hileman agrees her survival was miraculous. The former home health worker says that during her struggle to survive, two angels appeared and remained with her, radiating warmth and keeping her from dying of hypothermia.
>
> “The best way to describe it was two golden bright lights, just in the shape of two people,” she told the Oregonian. They appeared on the second night after she began to pray for help, they never spoke and disappeared at daylight, but they were with her every night until she was rescued, she said.
[http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=35777](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35777)
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### Author:  [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/2 "2003-11-24T08:24:56Z")
Can you say hoax?
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/3 "2003-11-24T08:45:35Z")
Without more facts it is dangerous to comment, however, it is worth mentioning that the illusion of warmth and comfort is reportedly common in cases of hypothermia.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/4 "2003-11-24T09:00:11Z")
whatever it was, she survived in spite of great odds & feels angels (& I hope, God) were responsible. It’s not proof of angels to anyone else necessarily, but anyone who would try to shake her belief that she was helped by angels & God is a poohead.
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/5 "2003-11-24T09:04:51Z")
It’s true that her hallucinations might have provided her with the mental strength to carry on. The second night seems about the right timeframe for food/sleep deprivation hallucinations to set it. If you were Wiccan, you might say that that kind of focusing of mental constructs (in this case hallucinating or interpreting hallucinations as “angels”) to serve a useful purpose (provide comfort and hope for survival) is akin to “angels existing”. But since your reading World Net Daily, I’m guessing your not Wiccan.
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### Author:  [@DaPearl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaPearl)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/6 "2003-11-24T09:20:21Z")
Completely agree with **FriarTed**. Its not proof of angels or God, but there is no harm done here for her believing and others who want to believe.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/7 "2003-11-24T13:49:08Z")
If WND said grass was green, I’d have to go check before I believed them.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/8 "2003-11-24T14:08:02Z")
I take it as proof of evoution, actually, in that natural selection over millions of years has made the human body rugged enough to survive extreme adversity.
Besides, if the angels were real, why didn’t they, y’know, GO FOR HELP or something? Even Lassie could manage that.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/9 "2003-11-24T14:17:21Z")
_snerk_
“What’s that, boy? Daniel’s trapped in the lion’s den?! Ma, start the truck!”
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### Author:  [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/10 "2003-11-24T16:05:14Z")
“Completely agree with FriarTed. Its not proof of angels or God, but there is no harm done here for her believing and others who want to believe.”
And there is no harm in others expressing skepticism about supernatural explanations and suggesting alternatives. Fighting ignorance and all that.😉
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/11 "2003-11-24T16:10:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*
> \*\*Besides, if the angels were real, why didn’t they, y’know, GO FOR HELP or something? Even Lassie could manage that. \*\*
My mom likes to tell me the story of a little girl who claims she was comforted by Jesus while her Dad went nuts and shotgunned her Mom to death.
I said, “Well, I hope Jesus knows that if I were in a similar situation, I would prefer him to SAVE MY MOMS LIFE first and perhaps comfort me later.”
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/12 "2003-11-24T20:47:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \*
> **I take it as proof of evoution, actually, in that natural selection over millions of years has made the human body rugged enough to survive extreme adversity.**
Oh, please.
If this sort of thing were a regular occurence, **then** you could argue that it indicates a human ability to survive extreme adversity. Even then though, it wouldn’t be evidence for (or against) evolution. It would simply mean that the human body is pretty darned resilient, nothing more.
Since this is a single event (one which does not necessarily reflect human ruggedness in general), that argument becomes even more tenuous.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/13 "2003-11-24T20:54:04Z")
“Mischelle followed three elk into Alder Creek Canyon, where she fell. Suffering from a deep puncture wound to her left leg, she was unable to make it out of the canyon. . . . Within hours, a winter storm moved in . . . The search was scaled back Oct. 31 . . . She was finally found Nov. 3.”
—Hmmpph. Some angels _they_ were. Couldn’t keep her from falling? Couldn’t ask God to re-route that storm? Couldn’t get a single searcher near her? Who the hell in Personnel is hiring these angels, anyway?
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### Author:  [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/14 "2003-11-24T21:55:13Z")
Well, who supposes that angels have nothing better to do than follow your dumb ass around and save it from death, while continue to neglect the millions of children in Africa. It’s not only delusional, it’s delusions of grandeur. It’s psychotic and solipsistic. Only a poohead would humor a psychotic delusional because they think their pyschotic delusions make the person feel warm and fuzzy.
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### Author:  [@Flash-57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flash-57)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/15 "2003-11-24T22:15:18Z")
\> Besides, if the angels were real, why didn’t they, y’know, GO
\> FOR HELP or something? Even Lassie could manage that.
Well, she was rescued, wasn’t she? Apparently, the angels were, indeed, fetching help during the daytime hours.
] I said, “Well, I hope Jesus knows that if I were in a similar
] situation, I would prefer him to SAVE MY MOMS LIFE first
] and perhaps comfort me later.”
Then again, there is no reason to think that He couldn’t do both at the same time.
And, of course, God doesn’t work that way. Steven Wright had a comedy bit like that. “When I was young, I used to pray for a new bicycle. My mom said that God doesn’t work that way. So, I stole one and prayed for forgiveness.”
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### Author:  [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/16 "2003-11-24T22:26:19Z")
\> Well, she was rescued, wasn’t she? Apparently, the angels were, indeed, fetching help during the daytime hours.
So, given “B”, any possible “A” that may explain “B” must be true.
I must be God. How else do you explain the fact that I am wearing a blue sweater?
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/17 "2003-11-24T22:37:19Z")
Shit happens.
When it is bad shit, we call it bad fortune, and/or summon an attorney.
When it is good shit, we call it a miracle.
It’s all shit.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/18 "2003-11-24T23:46:34Z")
So, by her own admission, she survived the first night without any assistance.
Why, then, does her continued survival require a miracle?
Isn’t it more likely that by reducing blood flow to the extremeties her body was able to maintain a high enough core temperature to survive? Doesn’t the loss of both legs due to frostbite point to this explanation?
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### Author:  [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/19 "2003-11-24T23:49:02Z")
Angel stories like this one expose exactly what is wrong with American religiosity. We subvert the divine to a supporting cast in our own personal narratives. Harold Bloom says Americans have relegated angels to “pet” status, these creatures that offer us unconditional love.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-angels/214968/20 "2003-11-24T23:56:17Z")
It’s not being a “poohead” at all. What about the people who do die in accidents, etc. By saying that angels or whatever saved this woman you’re saying they don’t give a crap about a lot of other people. Why didn’t angels divert the planes on 9/11? Why is it that angels only act in ways that can be easily explained by natural causes. etc. etc.
Oh, and like **jayjay** said, pretty much anything on world net daily after the date is pretty much a crock.
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