# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/181 "2018-03-26T00:51:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, sure. But if _I’ve already read that stuff,_ and I didn’t find it to be a convincing case for Christianity back when, then why the heck would I get won over if such folks (a) point at that same stuff and (b) loudly announce that it won them over? You are right. It takes a different kind of experience for a person to “get won over.” It has to be more personal, and maybe more private. George D. W. Bush was won over by Billy Graham, privately. Billy was a friend of the family and was visiting them years ago. As the eye-witness story goes, George asked Billy questions, questions, and more questions about God, just one-on-one. Billy answered them all calmly and Bush made his decision. He stopped drinking and changed his life. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/182 "2018-03-26T00:51:46Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > … Someone made up a story about what the angels said when Jesus ascended into heaven: … Have you read the gospel of Luke? According to it, after the resurrection, he went on to do many things, and makes no mention of the ascension. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/183 "2018-03-26T01:06:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Secondhand _at best_. Paul didn’t talk to the 500 himself, relying on oral accounts of others. I would only take a small issue with what you are saying about the 500, and it is this. For a long period of time, during which many of the “claimed” 500 were living, the early believers would say this creed among themselves about all of the witnesses to the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus, and the 500 were included. The creed was based on what the early believers knew to be factual, otherwise, Jesus would not be honored and the Church would have failed due to it being based on lies. OK, but Paul personally witnessed Jesus himself. Is one credible witness, who wrote about it, enough evidence that the resurrection occurred? There were others. How many would be enough? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/184 "2018-03-26T01:11:31Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I would only take a small issue with what you are saying about the 500, and it is this. For a long period of time, during which many of the “claimed” 500 were living, the early believers would say this creed among themselves about all of the witnesses to the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus, and the 500 were included. The creed was based on what the early believers knew to be factual, otherwise, Jesus would not be honored and the Church would have failed due to it being based on lies. First, do you have a cite for this? Second, “what the believers knew to be factual” requires mind-reading (and mind-reading of dead people, at that). At best, you might have a written record that some early believers knew this to be factual. That’s all, and having a written record that X people believed something to be true is very different from actually knowing that X people believed something to be true. > [@](#): > > OK, but Paul personally witnessed Jesus himself. Is one credible witness, who wrote about it, enough evidence that the resurrection occurred? There were others. How many would be enough? So a written account says. Paul could be lying, or he could have been deceived, or he could be otherwise mistaken. The same can be said for any other written text of a contemporary witness account. Witnesses lying, being deceived, or otherwise mistaken is far more common (perhaps infinitely so), and far more likely, than deities resurrecting people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/185 "2018-03-26T01:12:24Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > OK, but Paul personally witnessed Jesus himself. Is one credible witness, who wrote about it, enough evidence that the resurrection occurred? Are you referring to the story where he flopped around like he was having a seizure or something, and the folks who were right there next to him _didn’t_ see Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/186 "2018-03-26T01:23:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Have you read the gospel of Luke? According to it, after the resurrection, he went on to do many things, and makes no mention of the ascension. It is interesting how sometimes one gospel will repeat something found in another gospel and sometimes only one of the gospels will have anything to say on a particular matter. There are various explanations for this, but I do not have a problem with the differences. I believe that the whole of scripture is what matters. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/187 "2018-03-26T01:24:51Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > OK, but Paul personally witnessed Jesus himself. Paul said he witnessed a bright light, and a voice. Paul never encountered Jesus pre-ascension or pre-crucifixion. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/188 "2018-03-26T01:45:50Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > You would have to ask them, but as a minimum I am sure they believe that Jesus is the Messiah based on what the old testament says in pointing to Jesus and the new testament account of Jesus’ life and statements. As a believing Christian, I will still note that most of the “predictions” from the Hebrew Scriptures appear to be back-fitted claims by the author of the Gospel of Matthew rather than actual predictions. It would be more persuasive if the Mark author, writing before the Matthew author, had made the same claims about the fulfilled predictions, but that is not what we find. The Jewish people, who have been reading those scriptures for a lot longer, were not persuaded at the time and even Christian scholars note that the way the Matthew author, (apparently trying to proselytize Jews), portrays them do not appear to be eyewitness accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/189 "2018-03-26T02:00:13Z")
A Odom, do you also worship Zeus? Do you find the stories about Zeus compelling? Or is it just mythology? If it is just a bunch of mythology, what in the stories convinces you of this? Why not accept the stories as true? Also, what is your heritage? Were you raised by Christians? If so, how much time have you spent trying to convince yourself of Hinduism, or Buddhism, or something else? In other words, do you apply the same level of open-mindedness to other belief systems? ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/190 "2018-03-26T02:08:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > First, do you have a cite for this? You have a lot of questions. I have this book you ought to read, called The Case for Easter, by Lee Strobel. Maybe you have heard of it? Pardon me, I am getting a bit giddy. A cite in historical records other than the Bible, does not exist, as far as I know. so if you reject the Bible as a historical document, there is no cite at all. It must be said that the Bible is often used as a proof-checker against other historical documents and vice versa. Historians have analyzed Bible passages and have counted many of them as historical accounts. Anyway, it says in The Case for Easter, (pages 65-67 if you want to refer to it), Gary Habermas, PH.D., D.D (author of seven books on the resurrection) states, in admittedly, technical terms, that the structure of the passage in 1 Corinthians 15 is a creed due to several solid reasons, including (1)use of rabbinic terms indicating passing on holy tradition (2) the text’s parallelism and stylized content (3) The use of Cephus for “Peter” indicating a very early origin of use (4) the use of several primitive phrases that Paul would not commonly use and (5) the use of certain words is similar to older Aramaic and Hebrew narration. The creed assessment is shared by scholars from a broad theological spectrum. Joachim Jeremias refers to it as "the earliest (creed) tradition of all."Ulrick Wilchens says it “indubitably goes back to the oldest phase of all in the history of primitive Christianity.” The leading view of theologians is that Paul got it directly from Peter and James themselves and he took great pains to confirm its accuracy. Scholars believe that Paul got this material 3 yrs after his conversion. Further (a repeat) one of the very few Jewish new testament scholars, Pinchas Lapide says the evidence is so strong that it “may be considered a statement of eyewitnesses.” Later in Chap 15 - v11, Paul describes how the other apostles are preaching the same gospel, the message about the resurrection. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/191 "2018-03-26T02:12:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What is the likelihood that all the evidence that is necessary for the divinity and resurrection of Jesus Christ is contained in a 90 page book? If we were to ask a member of the Christian clergy or a student of the seminary, would they also refer us to the same book for the evidence you claim can be found therein? No, they would likely be familiar with the seven books written by Gary Habermas, PH.D., D.D., on the Resurrection, though. He was interviewed in the book and I have summarized some of his comments elsewhere. As I have said before, the Case for the Resurrection is a start. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/192 "2018-03-26T02:20:52Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > No, they would likely be familiar with the seven books written by Gary Habermas, PH.D., D.D., on the Resurrection, though. He was interviewed in the book and I have summarized some of his comments elsewhere. As I have said before, the Case for the Resurrection is a start. Pardon me, The Case for Easter ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/193 "2018-03-26T02:21:25Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > …I am getting a bit giddy… If you get raptured before you’ve finished converting us, do we get a repechage round or something, or are we SOL? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/194 "2018-03-26T02:22:08Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I would only take a small issue with what you are saying about the 500, and it is this. For a long period of time, during which many of the “claimed” 500 were living, the early believers would say this creed among themselves about all of the witnesses to the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus, and the 500 were included. The creed was based on what the early believers knew to be factual, otherwise, Jesus would not be honored and the Church would have failed due to it being based on lies. > > OK, but Paul personally witnessed Jesus himself. Is one credible witness, who wrote about it, enough evidence that the resurrection occurred? There were others. How many would be enough? Wait. We can tell a religion is true because, if it were based on lies, it would have failed? So, you believe all the major religions of the world are equally true? ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/195 "2018-03-26T02:30:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > If you get raptured before you’ve finished converting us, do we get a repechage round or something, or are we SOL? Tell you what, I can put you in my will, that if I get raptured, along with all of my wife, 4 children and 8 grandchildren, then I will leave you my book, The Case for Easter. to carry on the conversation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/196 "2018-03-26T02:32:50Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Wait. We can tell a religion is true because, if it were based on lies, it would have failed? So, you believe all the major religions of the world are equally true? Religions fail for many reasons. If they are based on lies, the informed will reject them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/197 "2018-03-26T02:37:32Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > A cite in historical records other than the Bible, does not exist, as far as I know. so if you reject the Bible as a historical document, there is no cite at all. It must be said that the Bible is often used as a proof-checker against other historical documents and vice versa. Historians have analyzed Bible passages and have counted many of them as historical accounts. Some historians. The degree to which the accounts in the Bible are considered historically accurate varies quite a lot. And, well, the sources are somewhat biased, so one can expect that their testimony of events (some of which, such as the birth, they could not possibly have witnessed first-hand) may be distorted to portray what the authors wanted to portray, which might be, shall we say, embellished. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/198 "2018-03-26T02:48:57Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Religions fail for many reasons. If they are based on lies, the informed will reject them. Those that follow other religions are uninformed, but those that follow _your_ religion are informed? What specific sect do you follow? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/199 "2018-03-26T02:58:20Z")
Huzzah, we’re so close to the Spider-man Fallacy! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/200 "2018-03-26T03:01:14Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Religions fail for many reasons. If they are based on lies, the informed will reject them. “the informed” ??? The Informed Muslim will tell you christianity is a lie The Informed Hindu will tell you the others are a lie… Or do you only consider “the informed” to be those that agree with you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=11)