# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/201 "2018-03-26T03:15:06Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Concerning anonymous conversions I mentioned, yes - you would have no way to confirm what I said. But maybe this will help - I met a Messianic Jew (don’t remember his name) who wrote Christian books and I asked him if he knew the Messianic Jewish writer Joel Rosenberg, he replied that they were friends. “Messianic Jews” are Christians. The only reason they’re called “messianic Jews” is anti-antisemitism (we want them to convert but we don’t want them in OUR church). Someone who believes Jesus is the messiah is a Christian. If the only time you distinguish the prior religion of a convert is when that convert is Jewish then you’ve just admitted that you don’t _really_ want Jews to join your club and you don’t believe them when they do convert. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/202 "2018-03-26T03:24:26Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I like Mark 7:24, where he calls Gentiles dogs. Then, he does one such dog a favor and casts out her kid’s demon. It’s an odd exchange, because he doesn’t really take it back, right? Basically, he’s not preaching for Gentiles at all, only Paul reached out to Romans, etc. The religion really got going under Paul. Which reminds me of the scene in Horsefeathers where Groucho providing a football team a play. Zeppo runs up and tells him that he’s talking to the wrong team. Groucho: “I know I am, but our team wouldn’t listen to me.” ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/203 "2018-03-26T03:37:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > “the informed” ??? > > The Informed Muslim will tell you christianity is a lie > The Informed Hindu will tell you the others are a lie… > > Or do you only consider “the informed” to be those that agree with you? Of the many world religions, Christianity is the only one that claims its founder was resurrected. From what I have studied and believe, the resurrection is a true event in history. Therefore, no other religious organization has a (claimed) “god” that can be described as powerful as God (YHWH or Yahweh). He is the First and the Last and besides Him there is no (other) God. (Isa 44:6). I also have a more personal faith in God but that is not what this board is about. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/204 "2018-03-26T03:44:14Z")
A demigod that can be killed by mere mortals? Doesn’t sound like a very strong god to me. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/205 "2018-03-26T03:44:57Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Of the many world religions, Christianity is the only one that claims its founder was resurrected. From what I have studied and believe, the resurrection is a true event in history. Therefore, no other religious organization has a (claimed) “god” that can be described as powerful as God (YHWH or Yahweh). He is the First and the Last and besides Him there is no (other) God. (Isa 44:6). > > I also have a more personal faith in God but that is not what this board is about. So - we have claims - we have reports (2nd, 3rd hand well after the fact) But you have yet to provide any evidence or proof. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/206 "2018-03-26T03:46:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “Messianic Jews” are Christians. The only reason they’re called “messianic Jews” is anti-antisemitism (we want them to convert but we don’t want them in OUR church). > > Someone who believes Jesus is the messiah is a Christian. If the only time you distinguish the prior religion of a convert is when that convert is Jewish then you’ve just admitted that you don’t _really_ want Jews to join your club and you don’t believe them when they do convert. I apologize if I offended you. Of course they are Christians. I disagree that Messianic-Jews is an anti-semitic term. I have seen them describe themselves in that manner. One of the Christian members in my church converted from Judaism, who is one that I mentioned in an earlier post. The other I mentioned in that post was an invited speaker and tour guide for a group of church members. They are welcome in my church. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/207 "2018-03-26T03:47:05Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So > > - we have claims > - we have reports (2nd, 3rd hand well after the fact) > > But you have yet to provide any evidence or proof. And what about that definition of “spiritual evidence”? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/208 "2018-03-26T03:47:30Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Of the many world religions, Christianity is the only one that claims its founder was resurrected. From what I have studied and believe, the resurrection is a true event in history. Therefore, no other religious organization has a (claimed) “god” that can be described as powerful as God (YHWH or Yahweh). {…} “As powerful as” because he can be resurrected after he is killed? Seems to me that a god that _can not be killed_ would be more powerful! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/209 "2018-03-26T03:49:07Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Of the many world religions, Christianity is the only one that claims its founder was resurrected. Osiris, Mithras, Odin, Quetzalcoatl, and Zeus would like a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/210 "2018-03-26T03:56:17Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Of the many world religions, Christianity is the only one that claims its founder was resurrected. As others have noted, this is decidedly untrue. Do you also believe that a virgin birth is unique? Or do you accept that much of the legend of Jesus comes from stories co-opted from pagan beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/211 "2018-03-26T03:57:01Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I would only take a small issue with what you are saying about the 500, and it is this. For a long period of time, during which many of the “claimed” 500 were living, the early believers would say this creed among themselves about all of the witnesses to the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus, and the 500 were included. The creed was based on what the early believers knew to be factual, otherwise, Jesus would not be honored and the Church would have failed due to it being based on lies. The only mention of those 500 alleged witnesses is in Corinthians, as you quoted in an earlier post. Do you know why it is called Corinthians? Because it was a letter to Corinth. Corinth is in Greece. Now, please tell me how someone living in 1st century Greece could possibly check the veracity of a story about something that was allegedly witnessed nearly a thousand miles away at some unnamed location in Palestine (and for some reason, these things always seemed to happen out in the countryside, rather than in the Temple Square), at a time not named but probably at least 20 years ago, and by people not named? They had no idea whether it was true, just as they had no idea whether Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies Matthew claimed for him, because they weren’t Jews, and knew nothing about Jewish prophecy. They just believed it, for whatever reasons other people believe other religious dogma. And so Christianity grew rapidly in places like Rome, Greece, and Asia Minor. Oddly, almost all the people living in Palestine, who _could_ possibly check the anecdotes about Jesus, and who _did_ know something about Jewish prophecy, rejected the Christian claims. As would anyone reading about the zombie invasion of Jerusalem described by Matthew. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/212 "2018-03-26T03:58:08Z")
Quetzals are such pretty birds. If I felt like worshipping an animal, that one would be pretty high on the list. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/213 "2018-03-26T03:59:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So > > - we have claims > - we have reports (2nd, 3rd hand well after the fact) > > But you have yet to provide any evidence or proof. I rest my case, but may exercise the right of rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/214 "2018-03-26T04:01:37Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > First, do you have a cite for this? > > You have a lot of questions. I have this book you ought to read, called The Case for Easter, by Lee Strobel. Maybe you have heard of it? Pardon me, I am getting a bit giddy. > > A cite in historical records other than the Bible, does not exist, as far as I know. so if you reject the Bible as a historical document, there is no cite at all. It must be said that the Bible is often used as a proof-checker against other historical documents and vice versa. Historians have analyzed Bible passages and have counted many of them as historical accounts. The Bible is a historical document in that it was written a long time ago. But that does not mean what it says is true - which is also the case for other historical documents. In 500 years today’s novels will be historical documents, and will accurately portray our time, but that doesn’t mean the events in them happened. Plus when you get further back, to before when the Bible was written, the “history” falls apart. For instance the Exodus and the Davidic empire. And I’m not even including fairy tales like Adam and Eve and the Flood. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/215 "2018-03-26T04:02:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A demigod that can be killed by mere mortals? > Doesn’t sound like a very strong god to me. No doubt. Vishnu would never have put up with that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/216 "2018-03-26T04:04:00Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Oddly, almost all the people living in Palestine, who _could_ possibly check the anecdotes about Jesus, and who _did_ know something about Jewish prophecy, rejected the Christian claims. As would anyone reading about the zombie invasion of Jerusalem described by Matthew. As I said on page 1, ignored by our friend. Matthew mistranslated the Bible and thought it mentioned a virgin birth (which it does not) and so made up the entire Virgin business. All my Hebrew School teachers, who can actually read the original Hebrew, and did, thought the whole Jesus thing was bushwa. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/217 "2018-03-26T04:05:29Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > > [@simster](#): > > > > So > > > > - we have claims > > - we have reports (2nd, 3rd hand well after the fact) > > > > But you have yet to provide any evidence or proof. > > I rest my case, but may exercise the right of rebuttal. (fixed nested quote tag) You haven’t presented a ‘case’ to rest. You’ve certainly stated what you believe - and why you believe it - resting primarly upon the beliefs of others. You have yet to present any evidence or ‘proof’ as to why these things are factual. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/218 "2018-03-26T04:05:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Apostle John was a eyewitness, and wrote about it in his Gospel. That is a pious tradition, not supported by fact. The Gospel attributed to John is anonymous, and even devout Christian scholars date it late first century or early second century, which means that if a contemporary of Jesus wrote it, he must have been 90 or so. Not very likely. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/219 "2018-03-26T04:06:25Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > You would have to ask them, but as a minimum I am sure they believe that Jesus is the Messiah based on what the old testament says in pointing to Jesus and the new testament account of Jesus’ life and statements. Many of your type of Christian have become Mormons. Is that evidence that the Book of Mormon is correct (book, not musical) and that LDS is correct? If not, explain why their conversions count less than the ones you’ve mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/220 "2018-03-26T04:07:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > {…} In 500 years today’s novels will be historical documents, and will accurately portray our time, but that doesn’t mean the events in them happened. {…} Just in case it’s not familiar to anyone, _That_ is the “Spider-man Fallacy”. CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=12)