# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/261 "2018-03-26T18:26:29Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > No doubt. I mean, Adam lived to like 900 or something, and Sara didn’t give birth until she was 90. How do I know this is true? It’s in the Bible. Are you hanging your idea on the fact that living to be 80 was impossible back then? :dubious: Men living even unto 100 were not unheard of: > **[Centenarian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centenarian#Centenarians_in_ancient_times)** > > A centenarian is a person who has reached the age of 100 years. Because life expectancies worldwide are below 100, the term is invariably associated with longevity. The United Nations in 2012 estimated that there were 316,600 living centenarians worldwide. > As world population and life expectancy continue to increase, the number of centenarians is expected to increase substantially in the twenty-first century. According to the Office of National Statistics in the United Kingdom, one-third of bab... > **[The life expectancy myth, and why many ancient humans lived long healthy lives](https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-evolution-human-origins/life-expectancy-myth-and-why-many-ancient-humans-lived-long-077889)** > > It is not uncommon to hear talk about how lucky we are to live in this age of scientific and medical advancement where antibiotics and vaccinations keep us living longer, while our poor ancient ancest > **[How Has Life Expectancy Changed Throughout History?](https://www.verywellhealth.com/longevity-throughout-history-2224054)** > > Learn from a historical perspective how lifespan and life expectancy have evolved from prehistoric times to ancient times to 1800 to what it is today. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/262 "2018-03-26T18:29:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, you are completely, utterly wrong on this. The confusion generally comes from Jews for Jesus, who call themselves Messianic Jews but are in fact Baptist missionaries making false claims. I don’t know the numbers, but I suspect more people have encountered Jews for Jesus than “true” Messianic Jews that you cited. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/263 "2018-03-26T18:35:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “I just traveled with The Son Of God, then watched as he was crucified, and was amazed when he rose from the dead to talk with us right before he was lifted to Heaven! I think I’ll wait until I’m so old I can barely remember the details to get it written down…or maybe I’ll just leave it to the next generation to do it-I didn’t write anything down, but I’m sure they will remember my tales accurately.” > > In what possible way does this make any sense? The disciples were mainly teachers, or tellers about Jesus. They were not writers. They repeated the stories and Jesus’ words very often, which ingrained the stories in their minds (and the minds of others). Eventually someone wrote them down. It is also likely that there existed, at the time, letters written (such as Paul wrote) which eventually became part of what is recorded in the New Testament. It would be safe to assume that some of their letters or other writings from the 1st century were lost or discarded due to the passage of time. Similarly, parts of the Old Testament began as stories, songs and words verbally repeated and handed down from generation to generation, until scribes recorded them. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/264 "2018-03-26T18:42:44Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > The disciples were mainly teachers, or tellers about Jesus. They were not writers. They repeated the stories and Jesus’ words very often, which ingrained the stories in their minds (and the minds of others). Eventually someone wrote them down. It is also likely that there existed, at the time, letters written (such as Paul wrote) which eventually became part of what is recorded in the New Testament. It would be safe to assume that some of their letters or other writings from the 1st century were lost or discarded due to the passage of time. > > Similarly, parts of the Old Testament began as stories, songs and words verbally repeated and handed down from generation to generation, until scribes recorded them. Which in no way addresses the factual basis of contents therein, not for the former nor the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/265 "2018-03-26T18:43:22Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > The disciples were mainly teachers, or tellers about Jesus. They were not writers. They repeated the stories and Jesus’ words very often, which ingrained the stories in their minds (and the minds of others). Eventually someone wrote them down. It is also likely that there existed, at the time, letters written (such as Paul wrote) which eventually became part of what is recorded in the New Testament. It would be safe to assume that some of their letters or other writings from the 1st century were lost or discarded due to the passage of time. > > Similarly, parts of the Old Testament began as stories, songs and words verbally repeated and handed down from generation to generation, until scribes recorded them. “Ingrained” might be a bit strong. Like any oral tradition, the stories change over time, both in details and in theological meaning. Note the incompatible differences between the Gospels; that’s what happens when stories are recorded by different groups in different places, decades after the original (purported) events. It’s a folk tradition, like any other. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/266 "2018-03-26T18:48:36Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The confusion generally comes from Jews for Jesus, who call themselves Messianic Jews but are in fact Baptist missionaries making false claims. I don’t know the numbers, but I suspect more people have encountered Jews for Jesus than “true” Messianic Jews that you cited. I have never met anyone who was a part of Jews for Jesus but met two Messianic Jews (not affiliated with Jews for Jesus) whose Christian faith was new-testament based, the same as mine. I also know of other Messianic Jews, I have not personally met, who were not affiliated with Jews for Jesus. Messianic Jews could have been members of Baptist churches but would still meet the definition of Messianic Jews. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/267 "2018-03-26T18:48:52Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > The disciples were mainly teachers, or tellers about Jesus. They were not writers. They repeated the stories and Jesus’ words very often, which ingrained the stories in their minds (and the minds of others). One thing we know nowadays is that repeated recollections of events does not correlate with the accuracy of the recollections. In fact, it’s the opposite - the more you retell a tale, the more your memory of it gets corrupted by your mind’s re-interpretation of the events. So I agree with the timeline you’ve laid out here - a small community of followers passed down stories about their leader decades earlier, until someone finally decided that he wasn’t really going to be back while everyone was still alive (like he repeatedly said he would), so they better write them down. The problem is that we know that this is a really terrible way to convey with any accuracy what really happened. > [@](#): > > Similarly, parts of the Old Testament began as stories, songs and words verbally repeated and handed down from generation to generation, until scribes recorded them. Which is why they’re unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/268 "2018-03-26T18:49:15Z")
Not to overstate the obvious, but this isn’t our first time at the rodeo and six pages in to this thread and we’re still no closer to having evidence for the resurrection … What say you, **A Odom**? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/269 "2018-03-26T18:53:09Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I have never met anyone who was a part of Jews for Jesus but met two Messianic Jews (not affiliated with Jews for Jesus) whose Christian faith was new-testament based, the same as mine. I also know of other Messianic Jews, I have not personally met, who were not affiliated with Jews for Jesus. Messianic Jews could have been members of Baptist churches but would still meet the definition of Messianic Jews. How would you know, A Odom? How would you be able to tell if these were Messianic Jews, or Jews for Jesus, or just a couple of nut cases? I assume you are well aware that Jews reject the idea that Jesus was the Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/270 "2018-03-26T19:27:36Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > . . . I have talked with two men who were once Jewish, that became convinced that Jesus is the Messiah (Yeshua) of the old testament, and became Christians. That had to be very convincing evidence to them. My experience is that people convert when they find a group of people that they want to join. It’s a social and emotional decision, mostly, and they only go through as much mental gymnastics as is necessary to: 1) make themselves OK with the conversion and 2) make the group OK with accepting them. Sometime there’s an additional: 3) explain things to a group they’re leaving. I’ve studied with several Christian groups and evidence and proof have never been part of the study. Learning the stories and being able to use them to juggle concepts has been part. So has deriding other beliefs, also done with stories, rather than evidence. Explaining what evidence actually is (as in, you can’t just declare that everything in the Bible is true) will get you confusion, incredulity, and maybe anger. So, no, I don’t see conversions as proof of anything other than that people sometimes change groups and that people are more comfortable with stories than with evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/271 "2018-03-26T20:34:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Are you hanging your idea on the fact that living to be 80 was impossible back then? :dubious: > > Men living even unto 100 were not unheard of: > > [Centenarian - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centenarian#Centenarians_in_ancient_times) > > [The life expectancy myth, and why many ancient humans lived long healthy lives | Ancient Origins](http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-evolution-human-origins/life-expectancy-myth-and-why-many-ancient-humans-lived-long-077889) > > [Life Expectancy From Prehistory to 1800 to Today](https://www.verywell.com/longevity-throughout-history-2224054) No, I’m suggesting that age in years means pretty much nothing in the bible. Giving birth at 90? Seriously? That’s almost as incredible as a virgin giving birth. I believe, by the way, for the inclusion of things like virgin births and walking on water and rising from the dead was to MAKE SURE we would view this as mythology and not mistake it for actual history. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/272 "2018-03-26T20:44:20Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Similarly, parts of the Old Testament began as stories, songs and words verbally repeated and handed down from generation to generation, until scribes recorded them. Or, they were simply made up, like science fiction. Your patriarch lived to be 100? Mine lived to 200! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/273 "2018-03-26T20:50:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Or, they were simply made up, like science fiction. Your patriarch lived to be 100? Mine lived to 200! Geez, you are cutting that a bit close. In some of the genealogy in Genesis, the patriarchs were not having sons until they were over 150 y/o. Noah did not start his cruise ship until he was over 500, and still lived more than three more centuries after the wet thing. Adam himself was recorded to have lived more than halfway into his tenth century as well. How they coped with being terrifically bored in those long tenures has not been addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/274 "2018-03-26T21:03:47Z")
Have any skeletons been dug up and shown to be as old as 200 years in age, let alone a thousand? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/275 "2018-03-26T21:20:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Messianic Judaism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism) > > Messianic Judaism is a modern syncretic religious movement that combines Christianity—most importantly, the Christian belief that Jesus is the Messiah—with elements of Judaism and Jewish tradition,[1][2][3][4][5] its current form emerging in the 1960s and 1970s.[1][2][6][7][8][9][10][11] Is it really that difficult to delete all the “[1][2][3][4][5]” footnote links when quoting Wikipedia? Unless, of course, one is posting from a phone or tablet, when it’s such a PITA it’s not worth doing. 😉 > [@Biffster](#): > > No doubt. I mean, Adam lived to like 900 or something, and Sara didn’t give birth until she was 90. How do I know this is true? It’s in the Bible. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Are you hanging your idea on the fact that living to be 80 was impossible back then? :dubious: Looks to me like he accepts that the ancients could have what we would call “a good run,” but draws a line somewhere between four score and ten and ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/276 "2018-03-26T22:10:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have any skeletons been dug up and shown to be as old as 200 years in age, let alone a thousand? Phantoms don’t have skeletons. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/277 "2018-03-26T22:12:22Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > No, I’m suggesting that age in years means pretty much nothing in the bible. Giving birth at 90? Seriously? That’s almost as incredible as a virgin giving birth. I believe, by the way, for the inclusion of things like virgin births and walking on water and rising from the dead was to MAKE SURE we would view this as mythology and not mistake it for actual history. Except of course John’s age is not given in the Bible. Apparently you were unaware of that. John’s age comes from calculations by Biblical scholars. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/278 "2018-03-26T22:22:33Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I think Jesus rose on the third day of the Passover celebration. Then Easter should be on a Monday. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/279 "2018-03-26T22:48:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except of course John’s age is not given in the Bible. Apparently you were unaware of that. John’s age comes from calculations by Biblical scholars. otherwise known as “pulled out of their collective asses”. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/280 "2018-03-26T22:52:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except of course John’s age is not given in the Bible. Apparently you were unaware of that. John’s age comes from calculations by Biblical scholars. Well, assuming John was human, and given that human lifespans were shorter in those days as opposed to longer, it would seem that John’s followers are more likely to have pieced together John’s account as opposed to John himself writing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=15)