# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/481 "2018-03-28T18:43:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And then person E writes about how it is prophesied that when the mother of Jeebus appears to some kids, the sun will move backwards. And on it goes. If you take religion as good lessons about how to get along with one another, it’s actually pretty helpful. If you try to see it as actual history as opposed to mythology, that’s. when you run into problems. The Bible should be called “Fables for Big People.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/482 "2018-03-28T18:47:11Z")
That bit about Joseph moving his family to Bethlehem deliberately for the purpose of fulfilling part of an old prophecy? If you can’t see that for the cheap manipulation it appears to be, then you’ve got problems. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/483 "2018-03-28T18:58:31Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > And on it goes. If you take religion as good lessons about how to get along with one another, it’s actually pretty helpful. If you try to see it as actual history as opposed to mythology, that’s. when you run into problems. The Bible should be called “Fables for Big People.” Oh yeah, I agree there. I actually still call myself a christian (to the consternation of many religious people) because I believe that the fictional stories of the man named Jesus do show an example of how to live a good life. I do find it interesting that there are those who call themselves christians who do not feel that they need to follow christ, and happily violate all his teachings, while they call me an amoral atheist, even though I do try to live my life as a Christian (“christ like”) should. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/484 "2018-03-28T19:24:48Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > If you take religion as good lessons about how to get along with one another, it’s actually pretty helpful. I think it may be possible to accomplish the same thing with a judicious mix of sociology and psychology. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/485 "2018-03-28T19:28:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I think it may be possible to accomplish the same thing with a judicious mix of sociology and psychology. And you don’t get the other parts of religious teaching concerning shunning, accusing, condemning etc. that way. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/486 "2018-03-28T19:47:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And you don’t get the other parts of religious teaching concerning shunning, accusing, condemning etc. that way. True dat. When you think about, it really is amazing just how many diehard Christians there are in the world, given the rather obvious mythological nature of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/487 "2018-03-28T19:51:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think religions are coded rules for living… > > … > > This type of frictionless cooperation is incredibly important in small communities, and religion helps to enable it. > > It’s still all based on fictions, but for many people through history they have been very useful fictions, or they wouldn’t still be around. And its important when trying to manage larger communities - like the Byzantine Roman Empire. It gives everyone a standard language and a standard set of values. If everyone is of the same religion, the priests act as the law, you have a ready made enforcement mechanism - and anyone who argues is arguing with God - which doesn’t traditionally get people very far. Theocracy is hella pragmatic if you don’t value freedom of thought and inquiry from anyone but a select few. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/488 "2018-03-28T19:55:02Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > True dat. When you think about, it really is amazing just how many diehard Christians there are in the world, given the rather obvious mythological nature of the Bible. I wonder if any known religion is exempt. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/489 "2018-03-28T20:06:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I wonder if any known religion is exempt. from a highlevel - wouldn’t religions like wicca and other ‘naturists’ (even deism to some degree) apply here? they don’t really follow a ‘revealed religion’ ideal so much as a set of guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/490 "2018-03-28T20:16:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Oh yeah, I agree there. I actually still call myself a christian (to the consternation of many religious people) because I believe that the fictional stories of the man named Jesus do show an example of how to live a good life. > > I do find it interesting that there are those who call themselves christians who do not feel that they need to follow christ, and happily violate all his teachings, while they call me an amoral atheist, even though I do try to live my life as a Christian (“christ like”) should. Looks like we’re kindred spirits. If someone proved it to my satisfaction that the J-man never existed it wouldn’t change how I live my life. Hence my earlier comment about finding the “if there’s no God then anything goes” attitude demonic ( I noticed OP didn’t comment on that). My church says we have the right to believe as mind, heart, and conscience dictate, and accept the responsibility that this freedom commands. " I’m thankful for a place my Jewish wife and I can worship together. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/491 "2018-03-28T20:17:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > True dat. When you think about, it really is amazing just how many diehard Christians there are in the world, given the rather obvious mythological nature of the Bible. Hey, they ain’t got nothin’ on the Hindus, That’s some awesome storytelling in that faith. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/492 "2018-03-28T20:38:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > from a highlevel - wouldn’t religions like wicca and other ‘naturists’ (even deism to some degree) apply here? they don’t really follow a ‘revealed religion’ ideal so much as a set of guidelines. Don’t really know enough about wicca, but aren’t there tree spirits and magic of various kinds involved? Doesn’t rise to the level of formal religions but still kinda silly, TMM. Deism doesn’t appear to require any specific toadying or grovelling so it’s W/E. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/493 "2018-03-28T20:50:59Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > If everyone is of the same religion, the priests act as the law, you have a ready made enforcement mechanism - and anyone who argues is arguing with God - which doesn’t traditionally get people very far. > > Theocracy is hella pragmatic if you don’t value freedom of thought and inquiry from anyone but a select few. I’ve had the thought that Judaism had a god who was a lot like a souped-up ancient warlord. In ancient societies in that part of the world, and a lot of others, you had your local group of people that was protected by your local warlord. He could tax you, and pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as he didn’t piss everyone off so much that they revolted. If you offended him, though, he had the power to kill you or make your life miserable. But when there was a threat from the community of people on the other side of the mountain, he protected you, and thus offered some stability to your group. YHWH was like that, on steroids. He wasn’t the ONLY god; other groups of people had their own gods (see henotheism), but YHWH was OUR god who protected us. We were his chosen people. Don’t piss him off though! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/494 "2018-03-28T20:54:39Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’ve had the thought that Judaism had a god who was a lot like a souped-up ancient warlord. In ancient societies in that part of the world, and a lot of others, you had your local group of people that was protected by your local warlord. He could tax you, and pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as he didn’t piss everyone off so much that they revolted. If you offended him, though, he had the power to kill you or make your life miserable. But when there was a threat from the community of people on the other side of the mountain, he protected you, and thus offered some stability to your group. > > YHWH was like that, on steroids. He wasn’t the ONLY god; other groups of people had their own gods (see henotheism), but YHWH was OUR god who protected us. We were his chosen people. Don’t piss him off though! One of the huge inherent problems with Christianity as a theology is attempting to reconcile their starry-eyed wishful thinking about an omnibenevolent god with the fact that the deity described in their books is just this side of being a complete sociopathic asshole. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/495 "2018-03-28T20:57:34Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’ve had the thought that Judaism had a god who was a lot like a souped-up ancient warlord. In ancient societies in that part of the world, and a lot of others, you had your local group of people that was protected by your local warlord. He could tax you, and pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as he didn’t piss everyone off so much that they revolted. If you offended him, though, he had the power to kill you or make your life miserable. But when there was a threat from the community of people on the other side of the mountain, he protected you, and thus offered some stability to your group. > > YHWH was like that, on steroids. He wasn’t the ONLY god; other groups of people had their own gods (see henotheism), but YHWH was OUR god who protected us. We were his chosen people. Don’t piss him off though! That reminds me of the competition between Elijah and the prophets of Baal, where the winner would be whoever could call fire down from heaven. When Baal wasn’t responding, Elijah suggested that he might be sitting on the pot. Cecil missed this in his early nineties column about humor in the Bible, although in fairness the story may change a bit depending on the translation. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/496 "2018-03-28T20:58:06Z")
I just want to call out \*\*Sam Stone \*\* for a tremendously well written, thoughtful post above. Don’t want you to think it went unnoticed or unappreciated. . ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/497 "2018-03-28T21:15:26Z")
Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/498 "2018-03-28T21:55:30Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > … starry-eyed wishful thinking about an omnibenevolent god … I never heard that word anywhere else, ever. Most christians, as far as I know, do not use it. It sounds like a straw man made up by rationalists to harangue believers, because there is no way it could make sense: the rabbit will die or the lynx will starve, you cannot make both of them happy. I mean, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence are absurd enough as it is, but at least they could make logical sense where omnibenevolence absolutely cannot. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/499 "2018-03-28T21:58:09Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I never heard that word anywhere else, ever. Most christians, as far as I know, do not use it. It sounds like a straw man made up by rationalists to harangue believers, because there is no way it could make sense… [And yet.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/500 "2018-03-28T21:59:54Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I never heard that word anywhere else, ever. Most christians, as far as I know, do not use it. It sounds like a straw man made up by rationalists to harangue believers, because there is no way it could make sense: the rabbit will die or the lynx will starve, you cannot make both of them happy. I mean, omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence are absurd enough as it is, but at least they could make logical sense where omnibenevolence absolutely cannot. The more common phrase is “all-loving”. And it’s no straw man - it’s a major selling point in many sects that god loves everyone and cares for everyone and will forgive everyone given half the opportunity. And even in that watered-down form virtually everything he says or does in the bible is _still_ wildly out of character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=26)