# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/61 "2018-03-25T13:31:28Z")
> [@glee](#): > > - we have four anonymous Gospels (written 30 - 100 years after the event) which claim the Resurrection. The Gospels differ on who visited the tomb, how many people were in it and what happened next… If you can see this (i.e. do not have me on Ignore), re-read #49 and #50 and write back. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/62 "2018-03-25T13:39:48Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > No, they didn’t. Tacitus is the one everyone quotes. > > Tacitus wrote: > > The passage was definitely proven to have been altered in the source manuscript, where Chrestus was changed to Christus. That change may or may not be significant as both refer to the new cult … one side claims this change invalidates the whole text as fiction … the other side claims it just was a “typo” correction … Pliny the Younger mentions Christians _ca._ 112 AD although he doesn’t speak to what Christ did but rather the best way to torture them to death … These are just shreds of evidence, I understand, and without the dead body of Christ in hand we can’t say with absolute certainty He existed in the flesh … we Christians claim He exists today in the Spirit, and we can resurrect that Spirit in our own hearts … and that’s the important part … We don’t invalidate evolution because we don’t know why all vital proteins spin one direction and not the other … or where all the missing positrons are … so we have to accept these facts in faith that someday we will be able to explain … _B.t._ corn works as designed and that’s what’s important … ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/63 "2018-03-25T13:54:42Z")
Are you actually equating the amount of evidence in support of evolution to the amount of evidence in support of the Jesus that is promoted in the New Testament? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/64 "2018-03-25T13:58:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you actually equating the amount of evidence in support of evolution to the amount of evidence in support of the Jesus that is promoted in the New Testament? Well…you know, you can…read about them both…in books. Since…there is evidence for both in…books, they are…the…same. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/65 "2018-03-25T15:16:33Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I will try to present evidence that the resurrection of Jesus is an historical event according to established criteria for any historical event. Is that reasonable? If the resurrection of Jesus is an historical event, then you have consider the possibility of the miracle implied. > > Sometimes, even in our present age, events happen that science cannot explain. I hear of events (I call miracles) that have happened that you would not believe, but I believe them to be true based on trustworthy witnesses. > > As far as the gospels being written 40 years after Jesus lived on Earth, there were earlier writings by witnesses that predated the four gospel books. That is part of the evidence. > > As for proving the resurrection in court, if Jesus’ resurrection occurred in our time and the observable (historical) facts were presented in court and the 100s of living witnesses to his life after death were called to testify, the court would rule that the resurrection occurred. The living witnesses alone would have occupied the witness stand for about two weeks (or was in one week? - not sure), as I recall from a book I read last year. Your own words, unfortunately (for you), mark you as unqualified to assess the reliability of historical documents. I refer, of course, to the two examples in your text above, where you make it clear that you think that the “h” in “historical” is silent. If you desire further proof that your arguments are invalid, I will, upon request, furnish an image of Nicholas Cage, in which his hair is a bird. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/66 "2018-03-25T15:35:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you actually equating the amount of evidence in support of evolution to the amount of evidence in support of the Jesus that is promoted in the New Testament? Thank you for admitting there is evidence of Jesus … that’s a good first step … next we need to acknowledge that humans are a social animal … what evidence is there that “love your brother as you love yourself” is a better society? … or do you not understand the lesson in the New Testament? … Nice … I say “single shred of evidence” and you think I mean “equal amounts of evidence” … you have no Spiritual evidence of Evolution, why are you complaining I have no physical evidence of Creationism? … ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/67 "2018-03-25T15:51:17Z")
“you have no Spiritual evidence of Evolution” What does this even mean? What qualifies as “spiritual evidence”, and how does it equate to actual evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/68 "2018-03-25T15:54:08Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Thank you for admitting there is evidence of Jesus … that’s a good first step … next we need to acknowledge that humans are a social animal … what evidence is there that “love your brother as you love yourself” is a better society? … or do you not understand the lesson in the New Testament? … > > Nice … I say “single shred of evidence” and you think I mean “equal amounts of evidence” … you have no Spiritual evidence of Evolution, why are you complaining I have no physical evidence of Creationism? … I didn’t admit to anything, and the rest of your post is a mess. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/69 "2018-03-25T16:06:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So who were the Magi (less accurately but more popularly described as the “Three Wise Men”, or “Three Kings from the East”) who were allegedly drawn to and attended the birth of Jesus? A nitpick here: the writer of _Matthew_ doesn’t describe them as attending the birth; that’s a modern story-book notion where the conflicting tales in _Luke_ and _Matthew_ are crammed together. The magi showed up sometime after the birth, when Jesus would have been a young toddler. And in _Matthew_, Joseph and Mary didn’t travel to Bethlehem, but apparently lived there, and then were forced to flee when Herod ordered the slaughter of young boys. > [@](#): > > All the Bethlehem stuff I figure is more likely fictitious, a later attempt to bolster the claim that Yeshua fulfilled prophecy by being born there, written with a clumsy _deus ex machina_ of a specious census that for no reason requires Yussuf to drag his pregnant wife nearly 100 miles. The census was only from _Luke_. And I agree that the two conflicting tales of how Jesus came to be born in Bethlehem yet didn’t seem to be from there, add some credibility that there was a real person that the stories were based on. The writers of _Matthew_ and _Luke_ each wrote highly implausible stories of how that came to be, and each conflicts with the other. > [@septimus](#): > > Cite: [The last twelve verses [of Mark’s Gospel], 16:9–20, are not present in two 4th-century manuscripts: Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, **the earliest complete manuscripts of Mark**.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16#Manuscripts_omitting_Mark_16:9%E2%80%9320) I’d like to point out for A Odom and others that this isn’t a view promoted by unbelievers. The copy of the Bible that my wife got when she was a girl in the 1960s points out that these verses were almost certainly not in the original. That Bible is a pretty standard RSV that mainstream protestants used. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/70 "2018-03-25T16:39:38Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer that others believe in loving one’s neighbor as oneself than in a literal resurrection. There are Christians who believe that the resurrection is metaphorical, not a historical event. I count myself among this number. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/71 "2018-03-25T16:47:32Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer that others believe in loving one’s neighbor as oneself than in a literal resurrection. There are Christians who believe that the resurrection is metaphorical, not a historical event. I count myself among this number. Are there Christians who believe that Christ being the ‘son of god’ was also metaphorical? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/72 "2018-03-25T17:08:51Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > … you have no Spiritual evidence of Evolution, why are you complaining I have no physical evidence of Creationism? … I feel, deep in my heart, complete unwavering faith that evolution is true. In quiet, contemplative moments, I feel that Charles Darwin’s ghost is speaking to me. Especially when I look at waterfalls and forests, and when I do yoga. Okay, now where’s your physical evidence for Creationism? ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/73 "2018-03-25T17:10:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are there Christians who believe that Christ being the ‘son of god’ was also metaphorical? According to the Bible, he also taught his followers to address God as father when they prayed. He is also recorded as calling himself “son of man.” I’m guessing that saying that he was the son of God in the sense that we’re all God’s chillun wouldn’t earn any sideways glances at a mainline seminary. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/74 "2018-03-25T17:18:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@P-man](#): > > > > Maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer that others believe in loving one’s neighbor as oneself than in a literal resurrection. There are Christians who believe that the resurrection is metaphorical, not a historical event. I count myself among this number. > > Are there Christians who believe that Christ being the ‘son of god’ was also metaphorical? I have to admit, I kind of want to see a service where that’s peppered throughout. “And he walked on water . . . ah, metaphorically. And he turned water into wine: also metaphorically. And he brought Lazarus back to life; and, actually, that one is _literal!_ Where was I? Oh, right: he made a fig tree go barren . . . metaphorically.” ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/75 "2018-03-25T17:28:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I have to admit, I kind of want to see a service where that’s peppered throughout. > > “And he walked on water . . . ah, metaphorically. And he turned water into wine: also metaphorically. And he brought Lazarus back to life; and, actually, that one is _literal!_ Where was I? Oh, right: he made a fig tree go barren . . . metaphorically.” Not that I have any desire to bring anyone around to my way of thinking (I married someone who isn’t Xian, for Jah’s sake), but I can actually name a rather thin volume that shows where I’m coming from. It’s Jesus Christ and Mythology, by Rudolf Bultmann. I don’t know this for a fact, but I suspect many Reform Jews don’t take the OT stories literally either. And how many adherents believe that The Buddha actually uttered all the sayings attributed to him? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/76 "2018-03-25T17:37:15Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Not that I have any desire to bring anyone around to my way of thinking (I married someone who isn’t Xian, for Jah’s sake), but I can actually name a rather thin volume that shows where I’m coming from. It’s Jesus Christ and Mythology, by Rudolf Bultmann. I’ll try to find a copy. Much obliged for the tip. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/77 "2018-03-25T17:39:37Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I have to admit, I kind of want to see a service where that’s peppered throughout. > > “And he walked on water . . . ah, metaphorically. And he turned water into wine: also metaphorically. And he brought Lazarus back to life; and, actually, that one is _literal!_ Where was I? Oh, right: he made a fig tree go barren . . . metaphorically.” > [@P-man](#): > > I don’t know this for a fact, but I suspect many Reform Jews don’t take the OT stories literally either. And how many adherents believe that The Buddha actually uttered all the sayings attributed to him? I attended a service where the rabbi declared that even Jewish atheists (I count myself among them) were still ‘Jewish’ (Jew-ish?). Now I can see that being due to the cultural rules about who is or is not considered Jewish based most often on accident of birth. So it doesn’t seem too far out of line for there to be Christians who think that much of Christ’s story is metaphorical and still consider themselves to be Christians. I guess religions feeling like they are under siege feel like they have to make certain --concessions. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/78 "2018-03-25T17:50:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I attended a service where the rabbi declared that even Jewish atheists (I count myself among them) were still ‘Jewish’ (Jew-ish?). Now I can see that being due to the cultural rules about who is or is not considered Jewish based most often on accident of birth. So it doesn’t seem too far out of line for there to be Christians who think that much of Christ’s story is metaphorical and still consider themselves to be Christians. I guess religions feeling like they are under siege feel like they have to make certain --concessions. I don’t feel like I’m making any concessions. To me it’s about how I treat my fellow humans, not believing that the laws of nature were sometimes reversed by a deity back in the old days. I believe what I believe, and I ain’t gonna lie about it. If the God of the fundamentalists existed, do you think he’d be fooled by someone who takes Pascal’s wager? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/79 "2018-03-25T18:00:13Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > If the God of the fundamentalists existed, do you think he’d be fooled by someone who takes Pascal’s wager? Maybe. The god of the fundamentalists seems to be a cruel psychopath who desperately requires adulation to validate himself. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/80 "2018-03-25T18:07:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are there Christians who believe that Christ being the ‘son of god’ was also metaphorical? I can’t say as to the beliefs of all Christians today, but there’s certainly a scholarly set that believes Mark uses [adoptionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism), and that Jesus only became the son of God when baptized. You’ll see the article references some ancient Christians with that belief. “Son of God” (or “son of God,” as there were no upper/lowercase in the language at the time) is also used for various individuals in the Old Testament. Though clearly not meaning literal, biological son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=5)