# Proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129 "2018-03-24T21:26:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/101 "2018-03-25T19:59:10Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I cannot find a non-Christian reference to this “registration” (instead of a “tax”), but here is one that refers to a Roman event that appears to have some historical basis: > \*…such an enrollment had been determined on by Augustus, when at Tarracon in Spain, twenty seven years before; but he was diverted from it by some disturbances in the empire, so that it was deferred to this time, in which there was a remarkable interposition of divine providence." > \*[Luke 2:1 Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire.](http://biblehub.com/luke/2-1.htm#) > > \*"The great classical archaeologist Sir William Ramsay, said that Luke was a “first rate historian…” \*So, why not accept his writing as historical? Also, \*_“Luke’s gospel is just the first part of a two-volume set in which Acts is the second. Colin Hemer’s massive study, The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History details at least 84 facts in the last 16 chapters of Acts that have been confirmed by either historical or archeological research.”_ [Was There Really A Census During the Time of Caesar Augustus?](https://crossexamined.org/really-census-time-caesar-augustus/) Christmas aside, what is your opinion concerning Matthew’s take on the supposed resurrection: > [@](#): > > Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. -Matthew 27:51-53 ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/102 "2018-03-25T19:59:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The “You should listen to me because I was a former atheist/Satanist/liberal/whatever!” is a common claim, usually by those who shown themselves to be woefully ignorant of their supposed former beliefs. Strobel was a former reporter who may or may not have been an atheist-this “fact” doesn’t seem to have any support in his writings prior his claim of conversion. I’ve read a couple of his books, and he has a tendency to take at face value just about any Christian claim put forth. He may have been a reporter at one time, but I can see why he switched professions because he certainly isn’t a competent reporter now. It is not surprising for a Christian to claim to believe in a Biblical passage based on faith alone. When you come to believe that God is real, on whatever basis is convincing to you, then you accept what He says as real also. But, beyond that, Strobel lists his sources that can be checked. As you said, there are many other writers who did not believe in God at one time, tried to disprove God, and then were convinced of His reality. I have talked with two men who were once Jewish, that became convinced that Jesus is the Messiah (Yeshua) of the old testament, and became Christians. That had to be very convincing evidence to them. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/103 "2018-03-25T20:05:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Christmas aside, what is your opinion concerning Matthew’s take on the supposed resurrection: Acts of God marking a very significant event in His interaction with His creation, including mankind. What is your take? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/104 "2018-03-25T20:06:16Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > It is not surprising for a Christian to claim to believe in a Biblical passage based on faith alone. When you come to believe that God is real, on whatever basis is convincing to you, then you accept what He says as real also. But, beyond that, Strobel lists his sources that can be checked. As you said, there are many other writers who did not believe in God at one time, tried to disprove God, and then were convinced of His reality. I have talked with two men who were once Jewish, that became convinced that Jesus is the Messiah (Yeshua) of the old testament, and became Christians. That had to be very convincing evidence to them. Sorry but your vague claims involving anonymous conversions is not convincing to me. I suspect your approach is of more use to people who already believe who need constant support and convincing, because I can’t see it to be of much use to those who don’t already follow your particular sect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/105 "2018-03-25T20:07:37Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Acts of God marking a very significant event in His interaction with His creation, including mankind. What is your take? That some people will believe _anything_ as long as it is wrapped up in the religion they already follow. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/106 "2018-03-25T20:12:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That some people will believe _anything_ as long as it is wrapped up in the religion they already follow. Yes, you’re so right, I mean Saul of Tarsus was such a dedicated Christian before he saw the vision of Christ…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/107 "2018-03-25T20:13:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I have to ask, though, if you throw out the whole “redemption” narrative, what is really left of Christianity? We can piss on fundamentalists, but at least there’s some internal logic to their behavior. If you don’t believe any of it is literally true, what’s the point? It not as though there’s any profound moral philosophy in the Bible. If Adam and Eve were metaphorical rather than historical, then there is no redemption narrative, because there is no original sin. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/108 "2018-03-25T20:15:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, you’re so right, I mean Saul of Tarsus was such a dedicated Christian before he saw the vision of Christ…:rolleyes: I have neither the time nor the patience to explain the meaning of the word “some” to you if you don’t understand it by now. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/109 "2018-03-25T20:18:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I have to admit, I kind of want to see a service where that’s peppered throughout. > > “And he walked on water . . . ah, metaphorically. And he turned water into wine: also metaphorically. And he brought Lazarus back to life; and, actually, that one is _literal!_ Where was I? Oh, right: he made a fig tree go barren . . . metaphorically.” Anyone can walk on water…if you wait until the water is frozen over. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/110 "2018-03-25T20:22:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sorry but your vague claims involving anonymous conversions is not convincing to me. I suspect your approach is of more use to people who already believe who need constant support and convincing, because I can’t see it to be of much use to those who don’t already follow your particular sect. Concerning anonymous conversions I mentioned, yes - you would have no way to confirm what I said. But maybe this will help - I met a Messianic Jew (don’t remember his name) who wrote Christian books and I asked him if he knew the Messianic Jewish writer Joel Rosenberg, he replied that they were friends. So, I will refer you to Rosenberg’s story. He has written fiction and non-fiction, including his book Spiritual Journey Wiki says: _“Rosenberg was born in 1967 near Rochester, New York. He has stated that his father is of Jewish descent and his mother was born into a Methodist family of English descent.[6][7] His parents were agnostic and became born-again Christians when he was a child in 1973.[8] At the age of 17, he became a born-again Christian and now identifies as a Jewish believer in Jesus.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/111 "2018-03-25T20:23:31Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I was referring to the book “The Case for Easter,” by Lee Strobel (Zondervan c. 1998, 2003). Lee Strobel was an atheist reporter for the _Chicago Tribune_, whose wife became a Christian. He decided to investigate the claims in order to disprove them. He started with the resurrection. He focused on 3 questions (1) Was Jesus really dead (at the time he was entombed)? (2) Was his tomb empty on the 1st Easter morning? (3)Did credible people encounter him after his death? His investigation changed him from a cynic to a Christian. Lee Strobel was a devout Christian before flirting with atheism in college. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/112 "2018-03-25T20:27:11Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I have talked with two men who were once Jewish, that became convinced that Jesus is the Messiah (Yeshua) of the old testament, and became Christians. That had to be very convincing evidence to them. Why? Do Jews not become Christians through grace? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/113 "2018-03-25T20:28:25Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Concerning anonymous conversions I mentioned, yes - you would have no way to confirm what I said. But maybe this will help - I met a Messianic Jew (don’t remember his name) who wrote Christian books and I asked him if he knew the Messianic Jewish writer Joel Rosenberg, he replied that they were friends. So, I will refer you to Rosenberg’s story. He has written fiction and non-fiction, including his book Spiritual Journey > > Wiki says: _“Rosenberg was born in 1967 near Rochester, New York. He has stated that his father is of Jewish descent and his mother was born into a Methodist family of English descent.[6][7] His parents were agnostic and became born-again Christians when he was a child in 1973.[8] At the age of 17, he became a born-again Christian and now identifies as a Jewish believer in Jesus.”_ “Man raised as a Christian by Christian parents becomes a Christian-News at 11!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/114 "2018-03-25T20:34:34Z")
My grandfather was raised by folks who believed in God, and he grew up believing in God, and eventually he became an atheist. To which I say: _so what?_ He got convinced; what is that to me? If I ever get convinced, that’ll mean something to me; that someone else got convinced of course means a lot to _him_; but it’s his reasons, and not just his result, that I want. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/115 "2018-03-25T20:38:34Z")
We’re on the third page and the thread has remained relatively civil. If that’s not proof there’s a God, I don’t know what is.:). For those who take the biblical narrative at face value, would it change how you live your life day to day (I’m talking about how you treat others, not praying, church attenance, ect.) if you were somehow convinced that the resurrection never occured, or even that Jesus never existed? I’ve heard some Christians say that if there is no God, then anything goes. That strikes me as demonic, because it’s saying that doing good is something you only do of there’s something in it for you (I’m this case, eternal salvation). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/116 "2018-03-25T20:52:55Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > A nitpick here: the writer of _Matthew_ doesn’t describe them as attending the birth; that’s a modern story-book notion where the conflicting tales in _Luke_ and _Matthew_ are crammed together. _”Hi, I’m Gaspar, this is my friend Melchior, and that African-American monarch who just walked in is Balthazar. We heard that you could use an extra labor coach or two…”_ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/117 "2018-03-25T20:56:46Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > Concerning anonymous conversions I mentioned, yes - you would have no way to confirm what I said. But maybe this will help - I met a Messianic Jew (don’t remember his name) who wrote Christian books and I asked him if he knew the Messianic Jewish writer Joel Rosenberg, he replied that they were friends. So, I will refer you to Rosenberg’s story. He has written fiction and non-fiction, including his book Spiritual Journey > > Wiki says: _“Rosenberg was born in 1967 near Rochester, New York. He has stated that his father is of Jewish descent and his mother was born into a Methodist family of English descent.[6][7] His parents were agnostic and became born-again Christians when he was a child in 1973.[8] At the age of 17, he became a born-again Christian and now identifies as a Jewish believer in Jesus.”_ In what way is it significant that someone with Jewish roots becomes a born again Christian? What specific claim are you making here that is of significance and how does it advance your argument? ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/118 "2018-03-25T21:02:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In what way is it significant that someone with Jewish roots becomes a born again Christian? What specific claim are you making here that is of significance and how does it advance your argument? There are people who were Christian and converted to Judaism as well. People convert every day. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/119 "2018-03-25T21:04:17Z")
> [@A\_Odom](#): > > I was referring to the book “The Case for Easter,” by Lee Strobel (Zondervan c. 1998, 2003). Lee Strobel was an atheist reporter for the _Chicago Tribune_, whose wife became a Christian. He decided to investigate the claims in order to disprove them. He started with the resurrection. He focused on 3 questions (1) Was Jesus really dead (at the time he was entombed)? (2) Was his tomb empty on the 1st Easter morning? (3)Did credible people encounter him after his death? His investigation changed him from a cynic to a Christian. They make the same “conversion” claim about Josh McDowell and his _Evidence that Demands a Verdict._ He starts out a non-believer and while he’s researching his book, he becomes convinced of Jesus and becomes a Christian. I see a flaw in that argument. What would a non-believer write about that would sell to other non-believers who otherwise don’t give a shit? So he decide to market his books to Christians, because that’s where the money is. If you’re going to write a book, write one that will at least sell. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Odom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@A\_Odom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Odom)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129/120 "2018-03-25T21:06:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why? Do Jews not become Christians through grace? Good question. Romans 11:17-24 seems to say that Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah are cut-off from the “olive tree” of Israel, and that only the Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus as Messiah are part of God’s “Israel.” The first Christians were predominantly Jews, of course, which were called the “remnant.” These Jews definitely received salvation by grace. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-of-the-resurrection-of-jesus-christ/811129.md?page=7)