# Proof That God Exists: An Open Debate For The Existence of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578 "2016-08-31T16:30:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/241 "2016-09-06T18:03:50Z")
The problem with trying to use probability to prove humans were intelligently designed is that you then have to concede that god himself was designed by a greater god, and the god after that, and so forth. And you still don’t get over the problem of the First Cause. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/242 "2016-09-06T18:14:24Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > The problem with trying to use probability to prove humans were intelligently designed is that you then have to concede that god himself was designed by a greater god, and the god after that, and so forth. And you still don’t get over the problem of the First Cause. Resolved: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s creators, all the way down. > [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Yep. As somebody else already posted in this thread, “It’s Creators all the way down.” ---
**Author:** ![Jeduraiya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Jeduraiya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeduraiya)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/243 "2016-09-06T18:19:28Z")
Dear Online Community, I am addressing this letter to my Ebay customers, as well as all those that I have been talking to online. This will be sent by my wife to explain my absence. For those that places orders and did not recieve your items, please rest assured that you will be recieving your refunds A.S.A.P. I’m very sorry to have been absent for quite some time now, but I have had a lot on my plate in life. I debated whether or not to make this, but in the end I felt it the polite thing to do. Recently my Grandmother fell ill with health complications, of which I feel is best left a private matter from those I communicate with online. For the past few weeks, I haven’t been online, nor do I have any desire to be. I am the only one in my Granny’s life that can take care of her right now, and that’s what I’m going to do. The way I look at it, the internet isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, and I’ll get back to business eventually. Until further notice, the store will be shut down. My wife has all the info she needs to give swift refunds to those that have been requesting them, and she will send the items out to those of you that still want them; for which I am most grateful! To those I am involved in conversations with on message boards, just let my threads drop. I will pick them back up one day. I look foward to continuing our conversations in the future. Thank you so much for your patience with this hectic time in my life. This will be the only message sent out. I will return after my Grandmothers passing. I thank my customers for your business, and to the rest of you; I’ll see you again one day. Sincerelly, Jeduraiya ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/244 "2016-09-06T18:25:37Z")
Reported. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/245 "2016-09-06T18:32:02Z")
That ends that. You guys seem to be having fun so I’ll leave this open for the moment. I’ll check in and see if it needs closing later. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/246 "2016-09-06T18:37:06Z")
> [@Jeduraiya](#): > > I look foward to continuing our conversations in the future. A conversation is a process where people engage in dialogue back and forth. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/247 "2016-09-06T18:37:25Z")
Refund in lieu of receipt of evidence of existence of God… I wonder how much we can expect and how quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/248 "2016-09-06T18:42:05Z")
I’ve seen “proofs” like these many times before(sometimes even on this board), and I think they are presented by people that believe that, since this same argument worked previously on a group of people that were somewhat scientifically ignorant(or at least unquestioning of what people in religious authority told them about “science”) and already believe in the “God” put forth-or in other words, a preselected audience-there is no reason the same argument shouldn’t work out in the general public. This, of course, almost never gets the expected response. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/249 "2016-09-06T19:00:33Z")
Damn, the ol’ “Sick Grandmother” excuse. So sick that his wife has to issue the excuse. Coulda boxed up a bunch of eBay trinkets in the time he’s wasted here. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/250 "2016-09-06T19:18:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Refund in lieu of receipt of evidence of existence of God… Sounds like the title of a Twilight Zone episode. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/251 "2016-09-06T19:31:01Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > The problem with trying to use probability to prove humans were intelligently designed … [snip] The other problem is that human design doesn’t seem particularly intelligent, looks like just random mutations over a 100 million years … ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/252 "2016-09-06T19:36:24Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Damn, the ol’ “Sick Grandmother” excuse. So sick that his wife has to issue the excuse. Coulda boxed up a bunch of eBay trinkets in the time he’s wasted here. The funny thing is, I was about to mention this after the first few excuses. They sounded suspiciously like a “shaggy dog” story. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/253 "2016-09-06T19:50:03Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Damn, the ol’ “Sick Grandmother” excuse. So sick that his wife has to issue the excuse. Coulda boxed up a bunch of eBay trinkets in the time he’s wasted here. Hey, give the guy a break; he explained to his eBay customers that, for the past few weeks, he simply hasn’t been online. I mean, sure, he posted the OP on Wednesday, and here we are on Tuesday, but – wait, I must be doing the math wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/254 "2016-09-06T19:53:28Z")
God whacked Grandma because Jed _knew too much!_ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/255 "2016-09-06T19:58:04Z")
She’s not dead. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/256 "2016-09-06T20:05:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Refund in lieu of receipt of evidence of existence of God… > > I wonder how much we can expect and how quickly. 10,000 quatloos in 12 parsecs ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/257 "2016-09-06T21:00:34Z")
I think we are dealing here with a true manifestation of Evil, possibly Beelzebub himself. Consider: the OP offers nearly perfect proof of the existence of God. Some minor flaws in the proof are pointed out in a flurry of some 250 or so replies, all of which the OP assures us he will fully address; the objections and alleged flaws are apparently of no consequence to his immutable logic. We wait. OP appears to run into unexplained difficulties. Then suddenly, bam! Grandma is stricken, and the OP is out of circulation! No one could possibly see this as mere coincidence. The Devil, the Antichrist, Lucifer, and Beelzebub all have their ungodly hoofprints in this, mark my words. When you have proof of God, it is always this way. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/258 "2016-09-06T21:01:28Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > She’s not dead. She resting after a good squawk. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/259 "2016-09-06T21:19:56Z")
Are you parroting someone? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/260 "2016-09-06T21:22:54Z")
She’s pining for the fjords. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578.md?page=14)