# Proof That God Exists: An Open Debate For The Existence of God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578 "2016-08-31T16:30:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/161 "2016-09-02T00:20:03Z")
I’m a Christian, but have no interest in convincing anyone to believe in God. Now that “love your neighbor” thing on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/162 "2016-09-02T00:20:11Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Men of faith tell us that God is working his purpose out what ever that is. If this is true and his creation is not complete then we most certainly do need God Right, the old “God’s mysterious plan” tactic to hand wave away any serious discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/163 "2016-09-02T00:20:46Z")
> [@Jeduraiya](#): > > _“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.”_\*\* -Galileo \*\* > > _PROLOUGE_ > Hello, > > I have been a member of message boards several times in my life, and this board will be the latest one I’ve joined. I have been looking for a board for years now to have intellectual conversations and debates with people, and after browsing the content of this site, I feel I might have finally found what I’ve been looking for. This will be an open debate for the existence of God. Debates such as these have been going long before my time on this Earth, and they will most certainly continue after I’m gone. Regardless, I get the impression that the members of this board may enjoy discussing a topic as rich as this one, if I am wrong; I apologize in advance. …snip… Proof of the existence of a god should be held to the same basic standards of proof that science uses: the technique should be repeatable by anyone, anywhere, anytime, and should lead to the same result. And that result should be a face-to-face encounter with the deity, while we are still alive. Until that happens, there can be no meaningful discussion of gods or religion. You might as well be arguing the gospel according to Daffy Duck; it will have the same validity. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/164 "2016-09-02T00:29:01Z")
What does it matter what god the OP is referring to? It doesn’t. The argument does not work in any ‘proof’ of any god. Bringing logic into it does not work. Or only works against the theist. It’s interesting that theists want to prove that god exists. I think they want to prove it to themselves. To justify their belief and actions. As an agnostic leaning atheist, it does not matter one way or another for my life and how I live it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/165 "2016-09-02T00:39:08Z")
There’s a couple of retirees from New Jersey that bought a house along the North Carolina coast. They’re suing in NC courts for the right to control the beach in front of their house in a manner that flies in the face of over a century of NC tradition. If they succeed, it’ll drastically and permanently change the character of our coastline. But they’re not even doing it out of some sort of misguided libertarian property-rights zealotry: they insist that they think the court ruling (which absolutely would be far-reaching) should only apply to them. Anyway. There’s also a storm brewing off the coast of Florida. It’s not predicted to hit the North Carolina coast. If it changed directions, shrank and concentrated, and bulldozed straight through that couple’s house while leaving the houses to either side untouched–THAT would be a proof of God that I would accept. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/166 "2016-09-02T01:25:01Z")
I am because I say I am and no further proof is necessary. Bob ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/167 "2016-09-02T01:49:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Proof of the existence of a god should be held to the same basic standards of proof that science uses … Many widely-help scientific principles have never been literally proven, but become accepted on the basis of the body of evidence. Einstein’s Relativities have no been proven _per se_, but every time we apply the math, it works within the framework of the theories. “Proof” of a deity is nonsensical in the language of science, but the more important point is that there is no single piece of substantive _evidence_ for its existence. The OP has not changed that in the least. > [@enipla](#): > > As an agnostic leaning atheist, it does not matter one way or another for my life and how I live it. That is called “Apatheism”. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/168 "2016-09-02T02:31:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > . . . Einstein’s Relativities have no been proven _per se_, but every time we apply the math, it works within the framework of the theories. . . . But also, there are gobs and heaps and tons of actual evidence. Particle accelerators wouldn’t work, nor would the GPS system, without taking Relativity into account. This isn’t just an abstract idea, but something with real concrete observational support. (Now, yeah, there are also people who have “observed” God – but their experiences are never duplicated upon challenge.) You’re right in another way: certain of the very foundational bases of science aren’t proven: that reality exists, that other people exist, that this isn’t just a Cartesian deceit; that “cause and effect” actually work. Those, we pretty much must accept on faith. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/169 "2016-09-02T02:58:51Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > … certain of the very foundational bases of science aren’t proven: … that “cause and effect” actually work.… Um, sorry? What is this supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/170 "2016-09-02T03:15:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re right in another way: certain of the very foundational bases of science aren’t proven: that reality exists, that other people exist, that this isn’t just a Cartesian deceit; that “cause and effect” actually work. Those, we pretty much must accept on faith. No. We run countless experiments on all these things, and these hypotheses never get falsified. That doesn’t mean they are proven (just talk to an extreme skeptic) but they have been demonstrated with p \< 0.0000…001 That ain’t faith in my book - just a very good working hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/171 "2016-09-02T03:18:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Um, sorry? What is this supposed to mean? Well, look: it’s possible that (per Alexei Panshin) in the lifetime of the doorbell, it rings occasionally at random times, and that people push the button at random times, but there isn’t any actual cause and effect between these events. It’s just a coincidence (like the neighbor slams his door and my lawn sprinkler turns on. That’s happened.) We can’t prove that there are such things as causes and effects. We have to assume this for reason to make a damn bit of sense, but it is, ultimately, an assumption. Same for the existence of reality, or the existence of other minds. You might be trapped in a holodeck sim all alone, and we’re just artificial constructs. At some point, you have to make a couple of initial assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/172 "2016-09-02T03:54:32Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > PROOF GOD EXISTS! > > “God” here is defined as a three letter english word consisting of “g” and “o” and “d” and in that exact order. > > Done. And if you run it backwards, you prove dogs exist. Much more useful in my book. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/173 "2016-09-02T05:01:58Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Many widely-help scientific principles have never been literally proven, but become accepted on the basis of the body of evidence. Einstein’s Relativities have no been proven _per se_, but every time we apply the math, it works within the framework of the theories. I don’t know what you are talking about. There is lots of empirical evidence that Einstein’s theories work. Many of the predictions have been shown to be true. Does that mean that his theories are correct? Almost certainly not. Every theory is subject to being supplanted by a better theory at some point. That’s how science works. ---
**Author:** ![Jeduraiya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Jeduraiya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeduraiya)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/174 "2016-09-02T05:16:09Z")
This is taking much longer that I thought. I have been working on my rebuttal for the last four hours, and I’m unfortunately still not done. I have been away from home most of the day, and haven’t had adequate time to focus into this. If some of you think I’ve left this to the wind, I assure you I have not. I’m going to bed shortly, but I will try my best to finish it tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/175 "2016-09-02T06:06:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I do not think that God has ever manifested his power in a scientifically verifiable way At the heart of the new testament and christianity is a belief that Jesus was the son of god and born of a virgin through impregnation by a deity, lived a miraculous life, died and was taken bodily into heaven. If you believe that Jesus was a real person then surely he and his life and work represented multiple manifestations of power that were amenable to testing. Or do you not believe that part of the bible? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/176 "2016-09-02T06:20:52Z")
Every single person on the planet believes in gravity. Gravity can be tested by anyone at any time. Gravity is always present and entirely consistent. There are many religions and each religion is subdivided into sects (some of which try to kill each other.) If any God existed, it would be trivial to prove it (just like gravity above.) But there is no physical evidence for any God (and their holy books have discrepancies and contradictions.) Therefore no God exists. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/177 "2016-09-02T06:28:52Z")
> [@urban1a](#): > > I am because I say I am and no further proof is necessary. > > Bob I am what I am and that’s all that I am. Popeye Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/178 "2016-09-02T06:30:37Z")
> [@Jeduraiya](#): > > This is taking much longer that I thought. > > I have been working on my rebuttal for the last four hours, and I’m unfortunately still not done. I have been away from home most of the day, and haven’t had adequate time to focus into this. If some of you think I’ve left this to the wind, I assure you I have not. I’m going to bed shortly, but I will try my best to finish it tomorrow morning. Rome wasn’t built in a day. But the temple was rebuilt in three. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/179 "2016-09-02T06:40:20Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Every single person on the planet believes in gravity. > Gravity can be tested by anyone at any time. > Gravity is always present and entirely consistent. > > There are many religions and each religion is subdivided into sects (some of which try to kill each other.) > If any God existed, it would be trivial to prove it (just like gravity above.) > But there is no physical evidence for any God (and their holy books have discrepancies and contradictions.) > > Therefore no God exists. Which God? If a god exists who doesn’t want us to know that he exists, then he would be hard to prove or disprove. If a god exists who never interfered, ditto. If one’s God was defined as causing the flood, simple to disprove. If one’s God whispered into the ears of various writers of holy books, and because he somehow didn’t think anyone would understand the truth told them stupid legends, also hard to disprove. What we do know is that if God cared that we know he exists he could do something about it. Since he obviously doesn’t - so Hasa Diga Eebowai. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578/180 "2016-09-02T11:43:35Z")
> [@Jeduraiya](#): > > This is taking much longer that I thought. You’ve come to the right place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proof-that-god-exists-an-open-debate-for-the-existence-of-god/764578.md?page=10)