# Prop 8 (CA) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250 "2008-11-05T09:48:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/301 "2008-11-07T02:26:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This really makes me laugh. Really. I’m on an anonymous message board staking out and defending a position that is extremely unpopular, yet I’m supposedly lying about what are more minor details. Question for you, Kreskin: if I was lying, why wouldn’t I just lie and say “Yeah, the stupid fucks who voted for Prop 8 and just ignorant, close-minded troglodytes. I’m so incensed about those assholes blah blah blah” and then go right another check to a Defense of Marriage organization? You’ve been here since 2004. You’ve established an identity here. It’s not anonymous in that sense. I either say you are lying - quite possibly to yourself - or you’re insane. There’s no other way you could be so rah-rah for gay rights yet vehemently oppose the word “marriage.” You’re clinging to the last vestige of anti-gay law you can. > [@](#): > > But let’s assume you’re right, and I am lying, not to mention bigoted, ignorant, etc., Why in the world would you then take time out of your day to argue with someone like me? I mean, if I’m a liar, everything I say could be a lie and I could be sitting here laughing my ass off while you get all riled up. > > Think, man, THINK! That would be trolling, but I think you’ve been here long enough that’s not your schtick. Why would I bother arguing with you? Because other people read this, and I do think there’s the possibility you’re lying to yourself about this gay thing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/302 "2008-11-07T02:29:37Z")
> [@groman](#): > > Faith most certainly predates marriages as any sort of societal recognition of a natural union or a governmental institution. After all this entire debate is about keeping domestic partnerships and marriages legally distinct – not socially, not physically, not religiously. Just to clarify, my comment went to the earliest societies, where religion had no comment on “marriage”. When the (marriage-type) “relationship” that a man and a woman were in was recognized as being distinct and different from other types of relationships. Religion then came into it an opined on that relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/303 "2008-11-07T02:35:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Just out of curiosity, do you ever have little bouts of reality wash over you and realize what a stupid, hateful little man you are? If so, how do you not just jump off the nearest bridge? Really, your insights in this regard could be a boon to depression and suicide research. Take your “hateful” and shove it, bigot. I hate you because you are bigoted scum defending a bigoted position, and deserve no more respect than any other bigot. You are no better than a supporter of segregation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/304 "2008-11-07T02:36:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You’ve been here since 2004. You’ve established an identity here. It’s not anonymous in that sense. I either say you are lying - quite possibly to yourself - or you’re insane. There’s no other way you could be so rah-rah for gay rights yet vehemently oppose the word “marriage.” You’re clinging to the last vestige of anti-gay law you can. > > That would be trolling, but I think you’ve been here long enough that’s not your schtick. Why would I bother arguing with you? Because other people read this, and I do think there’s the possibility you’re lying to yourself about this gay thing. Soooo, I’ve _not_ been lying in my posts after all. Whew! Even though you said I was. Which means, I guess, you’ll be offering me an apology. But it’s not all good news. I’ve been lying to myself? Egads! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/305 "2008-11-07T02:38:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Soooo, I’ve _not_ been lying in my posts after all. Whew! Even though you said I was. Which means, I guess, you’ll be offering me an apology. > > But it’s not all good news. I’ve been lying to myself? Egads! Yeah, admit you’re insane and I’ll assume the lying is some sort of delusional coping mechanism you have going. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/306 "2008-11-07T02:42:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Take your “hateful” and shove it, bigot. I hate you because you are bigoted scum defending a bigoted position, and deserve no more respect than any other bigot. You are no better than a supporter of segregation. Down. DOWN! Sit, Manson, sit. SIT!!! That’s a good boy. What’s that? Oh, just more of your foaming at the mouth and stupid, nonsensical little barking. That’s okay, just go back to licking your ass and loving it. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/307 "2008-11-07T02:42:41Z")
I’m going to bow out of this conversation, because frankly, **mhendo** argues it better than I could, and because talking to people like **magellan01** makes me feel slightly ill. Literally. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/308 "2008-11-07T02:44:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yeah, admit you’re insane and I’ll assume the lying is some sort of delusional coping mechanism you have going. I’m actually beginning to think I am insane. I mean why else would I come back and have yet another discussion with so many close-minded people who feel the need to demonize when they disagree? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/309 "2008-11-07T02:47:08Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > I’m going to bow out of this conversation, because frankly, **mhendo** argues it better than I could, and because talking to people like **magellan01** makes me feel slightly ill. Literally. Slightly? I’ll have to work on my incantations. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/310 "2008-11-07T02:51:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m actually beginning to think I am insane. I mean why else would I come back and have yet another discussion with so many close-minded people who feel the need to demonize when they disagree? Disagreeing doesn’t mean close-minded. Clinging to irrational beliefs in the face of rationality is close-minded. You think being gay is a pathology analogous to pedophiles, but for gosh sakes, we should still be treated fairly, but not equally. You know, the more I think about it, the more I think you might be insane. If you really believe gay is a pathology, why on earth would you let us out of the prison hospital, much less allow us to have children? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/311 "2008-11-07T03:01:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Disagreeing doesn’t mean close-minded. Clinging to irrational beliefs in the face of rationality is close-minded. > > You think being gay is a pathology analogous to pedophiles, but for gosh sakes, we should still be treated fairly, but not equally. That’s giving **magellan01** too much credit; he’s not opposing marriage for pedophiles. Or serial killers, or rapists, or professional torturers, or genocidal dictators - just homosexuals. It makes it rather clear just how he regards them. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/312 "2008-11-07T03:10:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I did want to attempt to answer you, but what, specifically, did you mean? An abnormal, medically significant deviation from what is recognized as a healthy human state – like albinism, schizophrenia, or cancer. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/313 "2008-11-07T03:16:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Disagreeing doesn’t mean close-minded. Clinging to irrational beliefs in the face of rationality is close-minded. > > You think being gay is a pathology analogous to pedophiles, but for gosh sakes, we should still be treated fairly, but not equally. > > You know, the more I think about it, the more I think you might be insane. If you really believe gay is a pathology, why on earth would you let us out of the prison hospital, much less allow us to have children? You see, now you’re just revealing that you’re jut a dishonest piece of shit. I responded to a question and explained how homosexuality might be narrowly classified as a pathology (which is not a word I brought into the discussion or think applies). I was very specific. You read that. But you then chose to intentionally mischaracterize my position. So, let me make this clear, you are the worst type of poster, and no doubt your lowness bleeds over into other areas of your life. You can probably hide it for a while, but you are patently dishonest and cheap. That makes you an undesirable boyfriend, girlfriend, son, daughter, mother, son, employee, teammate or friend. A despicable person. My guess is that you’re probably smart enough to hide this for a while in each of your relationships, but it will come out. Your spots will be revealed. The beauty of it is that in the back of your head you know it will come out. This is one reason you find it so easy to lie. So necessary. Put off the inevitable. But the benefits are short term. One lie will be revealed to be as such, and that one will lead to others. And then others. In the end you will be revealed to be 100% facade. And every now and then, when you’re alone, and trying to fall asleep, and can’t, you think about this. Knowing that that day will someday come. And it will. Just as it has come today in this one small part of your existence. This is the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/314 "2008-11-07T03:20:03Z")
> [@groman](#): > > An abnormal, medically significant deviation from what is recognized as a healthy human state – like albinism, schizophrenia, or cancer. Then it is a pathology ONY if one were defining “healthy human state” in referring to procreation. Otherwise, no, I **don’t** see it as a pathology; I don’t see it as something to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/315 "2008-11-07T03:21:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I see your point, but I think that goes too far. When trying to break a continuing cycle of poverty, having two adults to share the responsibilities of earning money, taking care of the home and raising children is a big help. This…is actually a fair point. [quote=The first MagellanI have no problem with gay couples adopting. I think—actually, I _know_ they can provide a loving home in which to raise a child. Not to pass up the opportunity to be further insulted by some, that I think the IDEAL environment would include a married man and woman.[/QUOTE] Just how do the parents being the same sex have a significant impact on the child? In my opinion, the impact would be about the same as one parent being somewhat lazy, or both parents working many hours, or parents running up debt, or all sorts of things. > [@magellan01](#): > > I’m actually beginning to think I am insane. I mean why else would I come back and have yet another discussion with so many close-minded people who feel the need to demonize when they disagree? Maybe if you kept out of the pit… > [@levdrakon](#): > > Disagreeing doesn’t mean close-minded. Clinging to irrational beliefs in the face of rationality is close-minded. > > You think being gay is a pathology analogous to pedophiles, but for gosh sakes, we should still be treated fairly, but not equally. > > You know, the more I think about it, the more I think you might be insane. If you really believe gay is a pathology, why on earth would you let us out of the prison hospital, much less allow us to have children? Where did he say gay people were equivalent to pedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/316 "2008-11-07T03:21:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s giving **magellan01** too much credit; he’s not opposing marriage for pedophiles. Or serial killers, or rapists, or professional torturers, or genocidal dictators - just homosexuals. It makes it rather clear just how he regards them. Your idiocy exceeds even the exceedingly high expectations you have set. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/317 "2008-11-07T03:25:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Your idiocy exceeds even the exceedingly high expectations you have set. And I note you don’t bother to defend your position of denying something to homosexuals that’s allowed to murderers and rapists and child molesters. You just whine about my supposed idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/318 "2008-11-07T03:29:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As far as sexual preference, evidently there are people that are born hardwired to be attracted to 13-year-old girls. Just because that is “natural” doesn’t mean society should reconform itself for them, does it? > [@magellan01](#): > > 1. any deviation from a healthy, normal, or efficient condition. > > The first two do not fit my thinking at all. The third, if it were modified might apply, but it would depend on what, specifically, is being discussed and meant by “efficient condition”. If we were talking about the furtherance of a species, then in that context specifically “pathology” would apply. Otherwise, no. Did you type these things, or was it one of your other personalities? I’m going to sleep just fine, and I’m not _even_ going to explain to you how silly that latter “furtherance of the species” notion is. You really did just fall off the ignorance wagon, and smacked your head a few times on the way down the hill. And then got run over by the other stupid wagon that was following. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/319 "2008-11-07T03:43:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I feel that the inability on your part to comprehend and/or entertain my reasons is a failing on your side Nonsense, because you have presented no **reasons**. You have simply presented an assertion that existing customs are correct because of their existence. Dissected, this is either a circular argument or an argument from authority (depending on the precise type of dissection), neither of which holds up to logical scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/320 "2008-11-07T03:53:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Unfortunately, the rest of your post contradicts the negation you claim here. Hey, believe what you need to. Of the two of us, one supports the institutionalized enforcement of policies that make other people miserable, to no concrete benefit to anyone or anything. The other does not, and was a little mean to you on a message board. I’ll let the reader, and ultimately history, judge which of us is the asshole. * * * **Bricker** - Your post is reasonable, and fair. I’ll say this: I’ve been reading this message board for a long time, and reading your posts for a long time. I do not believe that you are a typical person (I mean that in a good way, by the way), and thus have a hard time extrapolating from you to a larger population. But you know what? You’re right, and so is **hawkeyeop**. There _are_ those whose minds and hearts can be changed. They number in the minority, I think, among those who oppose same-sex marriage, but they should not be dismissed as casually as I have dismissed them here. I apologize for the gross generalization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=17)