# Prop 8 (CA) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250 "2008-11-05T09:48:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/21 "2008-11-05T12:09:09Z")
> [@Tyrrell McAllister](#): > > Furthermore, pro-immigration as I am, I don’t think that the demographic trends bode well for this particular issue. Not at least for the immediate future (i.e., next ten years or so). Actually, I remember reading in some LGBT-advocacy type publication that Catholics tend to be in favor of same-sex marriage rights. That’s borne out by my dealings with individual Catholics of all stripes in the No on 8 campaign, as well. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t mean to be mean… > > … but California had 5,700,000 votes for Obama, and only 3,400,000 votes for McCain. I don’t believe that the Mormons, Catholics, and Republicans had all that much sway here. _Fuck off_, will you? > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, the inference to draw from this is that the voters of California have no will of their own; they blindly vote for whoever has the most money to throw at a ballot item. That’s a massive oversimplification. The Prop 8 campaign used their money to spread lies and outright fabrications about their initiative, and they had the power of fundie mega-churches to spread (probably even worse) lies and fabrications to the faithful, not to mention outright tell them how to vote. The people of the State of California got swindled by a campaign with massive money power and massive god power. Otherwise-reasonable people were made to believe that Prop 8 was going to prevent a massive cultural shift that would destroy the institution of marriage, when in fact the initiative itself was a massive cultural shift whose direct effect is to destroy marriages. You don’t live in California, haven’t experienced the yearlong shitstorm on this, **clearly** don’t know jack shit about it and are not welcome to shit all over our thread about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/22 "2008-11-05T12:11:05Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I agree that responsibility ultimately lies with the voters. But why would that mean we cannot also judge those actors which played significant roles in influencing those voters? Sure. But if you’re making the list, it should look like: 1. The voters 2. Everyone else ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/23 "2008-11-05T12:15:39Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Actually, I remember reading in some LGBT-advocacy type publication that Catholics tend to be in favor of same-sex marriage rights. That’s borne out by my dealings with individual Catholics of all stripes in the No on 8 campaign, as well. And you can add me to the list as a Catholic that favors same-sex marriage rights. > [@](#): > > _Fuck off_, will you? Oh, OK. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/24 "2008-11-05T12:21:28Z")
Look, I was heavily involved in the No on 8 campaign and just watched my civil rights, and my district’s only hope for an end to the pork-barrel Hunter legacy, get crushed in the election, from his campaign’s hotel suite. Now I’m so worked up about the local electorate that I can’t sleep. You’ll forgive me for being a bit pissy. ETA: Thank you for your support. I do mean that. Regardless of the papal stance on the issue, I’ve always found individual Catholics to be unusually fair-minded about LGBT rights. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/25 "2008-11-05T12:32:24Z")
Does somebody have a link to the voting results? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/26 "2008-11-05T12:36:05Z")
[Here](http://vote.ss.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm). It’s actually gotten a lot tighter than last time I looked. But there’s also less uncertainty left… ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/27 "2008-11-05T12:42:28Z")
Scratch that last comment; I was misreading it. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/28 "2008-11-05T12:47:03Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I will forever despise the Mormon and Catholic Churches. And the Republicans. And anybody who voted for this heinous measure. This Proposition was written, funded, and supported by OUT-OF-STATE conservative interests, especially Utah Mormons. That should be illegal, and I hope many lawsuits are filed tomorrow to block its passage. I hope there’s rioting in the streets, and lawmakers statewide refuse to accept this poison proposition. I’m dejected that so many Californians voted for it – hopefully it’s not so much anti-gay bias (in this state?) but people who were confused by the pro-family message. (Fuckin’ Family Values cabal…they all need to die, too!) Whoever backed Prop. 8 and paid for the advertising, especially Utah, I hope GOD strikes down your people and your state with the most Biblical vengeance imaginable, raising cancerous boils on your skin and smashing your agriculture and infrastructure with hailstorms and asteroid showers. I hope your polygamist cults give your children AIDS and turn them into drug-addicted school shooters. Be warned, your Tribulation is nigh, I have foreseen it, and your paper-thin Messiah cannot save you from the wrath of Teh Ghey! Sincerely, **KGS** (Proud to be American, but ashamed to be Californian…) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/29 "2008-11-05T13:05:29Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Look, I was heavily involved in the No on 8 campaign and just watched my civil rights, and my district’s only hope for an end to the pork-barrel Hunter legacy, get crushed in the election, from his campaign’s hotel suite. Now I’m so worked up about the local electorate that I can’t sleep. You’ll forgive me for being a bit pissy. I do. I can only imagine how crushing this is, and I know you don’t need to imagine – you have to live it. I was trying to make a larger point about voter responsibility, but I don’t want to derail your absolutely justified outrage and venting. So I’ll bow out, except to say I apologize on behalf of my co-religionists that pushed this. They know not what they do. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/30 "2008-11-05T13:06:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Whoever backed Prop. 8 and paid for the advertising, especially Utah, I hope GOD strikes down your people and your state with the most Biblical vengeance imaginable, raising cancerous boils on your skin and smashing your agriculture and infrastructure with hailstorms and asteroid showers. I hope your polygamist cults give your children AIDS and turn them into drug-addicted school shooters. Be warned, your Tribulation is nigh, I have foreseen it, and your paper-thin Messiah cannot save you from the wrath of Teh Ghey! [Elsa Prince](http://www.mediatransparency.org/personprofile.php?personID=1178) From Holland Michigan, Mama to Erik Prince of Blackwater and Betsy DeVos (MI Republican Committee Chair and married to Amway family) donated a halfmillion to the campaign against prop 8. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/31 "2008-11-05T13:17:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I do. I can only imagine how crushing this is, and I know you don’t need to imagine – you have to live it. I was trying to make a larger point about voter responsibility, but I don’t want to derail your absolutely justified outrage and venting. So I’ll bow out, except to say I apologize on behalf of my co-religionists that pushed this. They know not what they do. Powerful words. I know this is a bit faggy of me, but I’m tearing up a little reading this from someone who I thought, well, from whom I didn’t expect this kind of support, I’ll put it that way. You know, **Bricker** , you’re alright. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/32 "2008-11-05T13:20:04Z")
California isn’t the only state I’m disappointed in, though it is the most spectacular. Arkansas has banned gay couples from adopting this election. Because, you know, they care so much about children they want them to stay in orphanages rather than go to loving homes. Florida and Arizona also banned gay marriage this election. At least Colorado Amendment 48 (Life begins at Conception) and South Dakota’s abortion limits initiative failed. So, LGBT people got screwed, but women, not so much. Yay, America. And my heart goes out to **Hostile Dialect** and **Indistinguishable** , my friends in every thread involving linguistics, as well as all Californians. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/33 "2008-11-05T13:24:27Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:18, topic:471250”] Thanks, these are things that get voted on at the same time as the election? How many states have same sex marriage? [/QUOTE] Yes they are, and I’ve no idea. Less than there were though. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/34 "2008-11-05T13:25:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They know not what they do. Well, you’re much more generous than I am. I think the fuckers know _exactly_ what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/35 "2008-11-05T13:32:13Z")
> [@Jeeves](#): > > Fuck, why does it have to be this hard? Why do they hate us so much? Their loving and benevolent “god” told them to. Does anyone have a link to information that is specific to LGBT issues covered in this election? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/36 "2008-11-05T13:32:48Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I’ve no idea. Less than there were though. I’m pretty sure it would go from 3 to 2: Massachusetts and Connecticut. And let’s be fair, it’s not 100% in the bag. The reputable news sources seem not to have called it yet, while they called the Congressional campaign I was volunteering with 38% of the precincts reporting. Remember, 91% of precincts are reporting on Prop 8–but reporting _partially_. We have _no_ idea how many votes are left to be counted. Almost 10 million votes are in now, less than the population of the L.A. urban area. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/37 "2008-11-05T13:43:50Z")
This is so wrong. This is so wrong. How can so many millions of Americans sit by and watch this happen? And I include myself in this population of people who have failed to do enough. I really believed that these horrendous measures wouldn’t pass; I really believed that the majority would do the right thing. But the fact that they did not leads me to conclude that we aren’t doing enough to put out the facts on this issue, to be advocates for the LGBT crowd. Because what we’re talking about here are the rights of a minority. And if Obama’s victory has taught me anything, it’s that equality can only be achieved with the support of the masses, non-minorities (and minorities of other stripes) included. I feel partly responsible for this. I feel like we have all failed on this one. I don’t think I can live in this country any more without actually doing something. This is such a huge injustice that we should be outraged. It should be front page news. In 2008 our country has votes Yes on bigotry, Yes on taking away the rights of others, Yes on ignorance and hatred and fear. What a fucking travesty. I can sit idly by no longer. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/38 "2008-11-05T14:04:53Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > A lot of those Obama votes came from Hispanic voters who are Catholic and are very socially conservative. Actually, exit polling showed that the Latino vote pretty much split even on 8. But the African-American vote was 70% in favor of the proposition. One of my best friends is gay and it was a very bitter night for him, seeing local coverage of so many black people celebrating Obama’s victory and discovering their newly found power at the ballot box, knowing that a majority of those same fellow citizens were responsible for taking his own rights away. Not a sad day–since Obama did win–but a bittersweet one because it demonstrates how far our society still has to go. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/39 "2008-11-05T14:04:58Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > What a fucking travesty. I can sit idly by no longer. Anger can be power. The Clash, _Clampdown_ I join you in your outrage and your call to action. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/40 "2008-11-05T14:05:54Z")
It’s a sad, sad thing. But can we agree on something here? What passed is in no way “pro-marriage.” It is anti-marriage. That is its purpose. The very soul of it is to prevent people from marrying. Let’s call it what it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=3)