# Prop 8 (CA) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250 "2008-11-05T09:48:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/41 "2008-11-05T14:15:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I didn’t expect any better. America is and has always been bigoted to the core. And California is far less left wing than a lot of people like to believe. You. I was tempted to launch into a ribald rant of Shakespearean proportions, but managed regain my composure and actually, on review, find myself feeling sorry for you. How horrible it must be to live in your skin, where nothing is good enough, no advancement far enough, no gains large enough, no victories sweeping enough. You’re an unfortunate person, and I wish you hope. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Conquest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Conquest)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/42 "2008-11-05T14:16:44Z")
I am a Mormon, and I can completely understand everyone’s outrage here against the Mormon church. They did do as much as they could to support Prop 8. I typed a lengthy post about how not all Mormons agree with what the church did here, but it really doesn’t matter for this thread. Anyway, I just wanted to observe that over the course of my lifetime, things have changed so dramatically with regards to gay acceptance that it’s obvious to me that you’ll get there before too long. It sucks to lose a big battle, but time is on your side. Keep fighting for what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/43 "2008-11-05T14:19:25Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I was tempted to launch into a ribald rant of Shakespearean proportions, but managed regain my composure and actually, on review, find myself feeling sorry for you. How horrible it must be to live in your skin, where nothing is good enough, no advancement far enough, no gains large enough, no victories sweeping enough. This is a LOSS you idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Jeeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@Jeeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeeves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/44 "2008-11-05T14:42:37Z")
I don’t fucking get it. Why do they hate us so much? I forget, because I live in gay friendly areas, and don’t go to church, and don’t see the hate. Then every few years, I get reminded that the human capacity for hating what they define as the other seems to be boundless. Even from those who are defined as the other as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/45 "2008-11-05T14:54:09Z")
I’m in Connecticut now, where voters yesterday turned down a last-ditch effort\* to ban gay marriage. So all is not lost. I am also disappointed, but then I thought about the presidential election, and said to myself “one down, gay marriage next.” Keep fighting. My other home (NJ) has civil unions with the same rights as marriage. \*It was through the bizarre stipulation that every 20 years the voters can call a constitutional convention and rewrite the whole thing. It was very clear the the main reason it was proposed was to ban gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/46 "2008-11-05T14:54:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This is a LOSS you idiot. I think what he’s saying is that, even in the face of what is a clear blow against racism and ignorance (Obama’s win) you continue to hold onto your threadbare idea that the USA is somehow a base, racist, ignorant state. I haven’t seen you in a thread celebrating the win, but I KNEW you would be here, deriding the American populace somehow. And the way CA politics are rigged, it isn’t going away. It’ll be back. Each time SSM is shot down in Cali, it comes back and lasts just a little bit longer. I have faith. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/47 "2008-11-05T14:54:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, the inference to draw from this is that the voters of California have no will of their own; they blindly vote for whoever has the most money to throw at a ballot item. > > Which then means that Obama’s win should be similarly regarded as simply the victory of advertising dollars…? > > Sorry. Responsibility for the decision lies with the voters, for the good and for the bad. > > This one is bad. Of course you are right that ultimately the responsibility lies with the voters, however the Yes on 8 group played a **very** dirty game and imo it was the lies they spewed over the airways that misled the voters into passing this. I live in California and saw and heard those ads daily for the past several weeks. They claimed that if Prop 8 didn’t pass, our schools would be taking the kids to lesbian weddings and teaching little boys the particulars of gay sex. Lies of course, but they spread them and were successful at pulling the wool over enough voters eyes. If they had addressed the issues honestly and it had passed, that would be a different story, but I think they intentionally lied in their ads because the truth would not have garnered enough support. I am straight and married but I think it is bullshit that I have rights that are not afforded to others. I look forward to the day when this bigotted measure is reversed. It will be. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/48 "2008-11-05T14:54:59Z")
> [@Jeeves](#): > > I don’t fucking get it. Why do they hate us so much? And they’ll act as if you’d just slandered their good name if they hear or read you saying they hate us. Hate you?! Of course not! They just hate what you do…love the sinner, hate the sin, after all. Meanwhile I’m not constrained by the moral boundaries of Christianity to pretend that I don’t hate the people who voted to pass this. The difference is that **I’d** never vote to restrict **their** rights. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/49 "2008-11-05T14:58:01Z")
What’s so wrong about separate but equal? Every-fucking-thing! Fucking-A this sucks beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/50 "2008-11-05T15:01:22Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > What’s so wrong about separate but equal? > > Every-fucking-thing! Fucking-A this sucks beyond belief. I wouldn’t look for civil unions (or domestic partnerships) to go unchallenged now, either, with this amendment in the state constitution. The whole point was to make sure the fags didn’t get too uppity, after all. It may be a new morning in America, but there are some persistent shadows. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/51 "2008-11-05T15:01:58Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > I think what he’s saying is that, even in the face of what is a clear blow against racism and ignorance (Obama’s win) you continue to hold onto your threadbare idea that the USA is somehow a base, racist, ignorant state. And as I said elsewhere, big deal. One guy winning a political race doesn’t mean much. > [@Tristan](#): > > And the way CA politics are rigged, it isn’t going away. It’ll be back. Probably with another Amendment to ban adoption by homosexuals or worse. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/52 "2008-11-05T15:06:50Z")
To the fucking 5,125,752+ fucking bigots who voted to declare a group of people not worthy of equality in California: Fuck you with a splintered stick. You didn’t vote to “protect” a goddamn thing. You voted to remove equality. “Equal protection under the law” to you must mean “equal unless I don’t know how to explain it to my kids” or “only people like me can be equal” or “God says you’re bad so you can’t be equal.” Despite how you might feel about homosexuals, this amendment goes against _everything_ America stands for. I propose a new ballot measure outlawing divorce, so that we can further protect marriage. And another making sure only white people marry other white people, and other races can only marry their own kind, again, to protect marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/53 "2008-11-05T15:10:01Z")
Ah, very depressing. I went to bed late, at least 80% sure that when the urban returns rolled in I’d wake up to 8 being defeated. I’m not shocked, but I am disappointed with my state today - I really thought this corner had been turned here, if not in the nation. If only our constitution were just a bit more sensibly resistant to editing ( 50%+ to amend is kinda ridiculous ) it still wouldn’t be an issue. But as somebody else noted, the demographics are changing. And if not this year, perhaps this decade. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/54 "2008-11-05T15:11:17Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > . **And another making sure only white people marry other white people, and other races can only marry their own kind, again, to protect marriage**. Interracial marriage was illegal in many US states until the 1950s. Those bigotted laws were overturned just like this one will be. Very disappointing that it passed, but it\*\* will \*\*be reversed because it is just plain wrong. I have no doubt about that. ---
**Author:** ![Jeeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@Jeeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeeves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/55 "2008-11-05T15:16:55Z")
Interracial marriages were overturned. In California this was done by the Ca. Supreme Court. The KKK didn’t go get a constitutional amendment re-banning inter-racial marriage. At this point, we are worse off than inter-racial couples were. And for all of you who think that this issue will make it back on the ballot in 2-4 years, dream on. This is not going to be re-visited for a decade or more. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/56 "2008-11-05T15:25:11Z")
I’m not gay, nor from California, so I know this won’t mean much, but all of you have my heartfelt sympathy. I am disgusted beyond words at the results of this vote and the bigotry people have shown themselves so capable of clinging to. For what little its worth, I’ll be voting no on any similar amendments in Iowa if it ever occurs here… Which may be soon depending on how the Iowa Supreme Court decision turns out. Sadly, I’m 100% positive how a vote in this state will turn out. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/57 "2008-11-05T15:28:49Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I look forward to the day when this bigotted measure is reversed. It will be. With any luck, it may not make it into law at all. California has a history of passing initiatives ([Prop 187](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_187), plus a recent anti-sex offender law) which pass by a wide margin, but are ruled unconstitutional after several lawsuits are filed the day after Election Day. I predict (and hope) Prop. 8 will suffer the same fate. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/58 "2008-11-05T15:30:33Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Interracial marriage was illegal in many US states until the 1950s. Those bigotted laws were overturned just like this one will be. Very disappointing that it passed, but it\*\* will \*\*be reversed because it is just plain wrong. I have no doubt about that. [_Loving v. Virginia_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia), the SCOTUS decision which ended race-based restrictions on marriage nationwide, wasn’t handed down until 1967. With Obama in the White House and a majority in the Senate, we may yet see a sympathetic Court. I have every confidence that a Court that could decide _Lawrence_ may decide the gay version of _Loving_. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/59 "2008-11-05T15:33:38Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > With any luck, it may not make it into law at all. California has a history of passing initiatives ([Prop 187](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_187), plus a recent anti-sex offender law) which pass by a wide margin, but are ruled unconstitutional after several lawsuits are filed the day after Election Day. I predict (and hope) Prop. 8 will suffer the same fate. Except that as a constitutional amendment itself, that can’t happen as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/60 "2008-11-05T15:54:56Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > To the fucking 5,125,752+ fucking bigots who voted to declare a group of people not worthy of equality in California: Fuck you with a splintered stick. Did you vote for Obama? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=4)