# Prop 8 (CA) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250 "2008-11-05T09:48:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/701 "2008-11-18T01:47:45Z")
Well argued, **Bricker**! I don’t always agree with you (irrelevant as that may be for a non-USian), but you invariably provide a clear, logical, and usually thought-provoking reasoning for your position. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/702 "2008-11-18T02:17:29Z")
If I understand Bricker correctly, he’s advocating that we have not only an opportunity to adjust our judicial and legislative systems to ensure justice, but also make adjustments such that those systems are fairer and more scalable when it comes to the content of the law. His arguments include retrospective analysis on past decisions that were based on flawed premises, even if those decisions have been justified. He’s advocating that instead of using the agents of change that have been successful in the past, but are flawed, we should also take on the burden/responsibility (for lack of better words) of making sure our movement’s ultimate success culminates in making the right change via the best mechanism. Is that a fair assessment? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/703 "2008-11-18T05:22:08Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > He’s advocating that instead of using the agents of change that have been successful in the past, but are flawed, we should also take on the burden/responsibility (for lack of better words) of making sure our movement’s ultimate success culminates in making the right change via the best mechanism. 😕 He said that? Did he note the best mechanism? I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/704 "2008-11-18T05:30:13Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > 😕 He said that? Did he note the best mechanism? I missed it. He noted the best mechanism, but did not offer any insight into what to do when that mechanism fails to produce social justice, as it often has. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/705 "2008-11-18T05:31:38Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > 😕 He said that? Did he note the best mechanism? I missed it. I believe that would be this part here: > [@Bricker](#): > > And all of this is important because it goes to the heart of what we as Americans profess to believe in: we govern ourselves. WE are sovereign; we do not surrender our sovereignty to unelected judges. But ceding to judges such sweeping power is to do exactly that: surrender, in some small measure each time, our ability to govern ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250/706 "2008-11-18T05:43:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He noted the best mechanism, but did not offer any insight into what to do when that mechanism fails to produce social justice, as it often has. Ohh. And that’s why I missed it. It seemed incongruous with many of the comments I’ve seen in this thread. Thanks. > [@Miller](#): > > I believe that would be this part here: Thanks. I put both your comments together to piece it together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prop-8-ca/471250.md?page=35)