# Propaganda Chief Takes Helm at NPR **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009 "2019-09-10T21:13:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/81 "2019-09-13T13:15:54Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > Now, waitaminnit. Government is **part** of the productive economy, it is not some kind of parasitic growth on the private sector. Unless you subscribe to what economists call the “physical fallacy,” the belief that “real” wealth means only what you can hold in your hands. Soldiers and police officers and firefighters do not “produce” anything in that sense, but an economy can’t get along without them. Even **lawyers** are productive. Even lawyers?:eek: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What about shitter cleaners employed by the government? > > CHECKMATE, sir. It’s okay. You’ll get over being so thoroughly PWND. > > 😉 That is the ultimate paradox! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/82 "2019-09-13T17:29:12Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Really? That’s the line of embarrassment for you and blindly accepting an obviously bogus Conservapedia article isn’t? Never heard of the website. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What about shitter cleaners employed by the government? > > CHECKMATE, sir. It’s okay. You’ll get over being so thoroughly PWND. > > 😉 No. Government shitter cleaners are not productive. There is no voluntary exchange involved in government action. Therefore, there is no value created. That being said, if all of the tax collectors and military personnel were made into shitter cleaners, there would be far less damage caused to our society. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/83 "2019-09-13T17:40:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No. Government shitter cleaners are not productive. There is no voluntary exchange involved in government action. Therefore, there is no value created. I don’t know about you, but the exchanges I make with shitters are mostly voluntary.\* \*Unless I’ve been eating Taco Bell. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/84 "2019-09-13T17:43:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Never heard of the website. You are so full of shit Porta Potty makes twice-weekly visits to your house. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/85 "2019-09-13T17:46:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are so full of shit Porta Potty makes twice-weekly visits to your house. That must be why he has such great respect for shitter cleaners! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/86 "2019-09-13T18:09:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No. Government shitter cleaners are not productive. There is no voluntary exchange involved in government action. Therefore, there is no value created. Leave it to **WillFarnaby** to invent the “no true shitter cleaner” fallacy. ETA: although upon reflection, it could be a “posioning the shithouse” fallacy. Either way, someone needs to address how much bullshit has accumulated in him. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/87 "2019-09-13T18:23:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There is no voluntary exchange involved in government action. Therefore, there is no value created. I’ve been staring at this for a while, and while i recognize individual words, I’m not quite grasping the meaning. Any help? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/88 "2019-09-13T20:23:00Z")
I think it’s a riff on the “TAXATION IS THEFT AT GUNPOINT!!!@” thing, but I’ll defer to the treadless Boomerphobe to unlace his turd-knot of a philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/89 "2019-09-13T20:29:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’ve been staring at this for a while, and while i recognize individual words, I’m not quite grasping the meaning. > > Any help? I think the idea is that since Will hasn’t personally agreed to and personally negotiated payment for everything that the government does, everything the government does is bad. Basically every road should be a toll road, fire and police services should be by subscription, food safety should be handled by caveat emptor, and anyone who finds themselves temporarily in need of assistance should die in squalor. Effectively replacing a sometimes inefficient communal use of resources governed whose primary motivation is to win your approval, with a massively inefficient system where every action that of modern life that we now take for granted has to be paid for individually from people whose sole motivation is to extract as many resources from you as possible. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/90 "2019-09-13T20:33:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I am disappointed that the government has drawn so many true public servants from the productive sector and placed them in govt positions where they do nothing but damage. > > I am more worried about govt hacks bringing warped ideologies into the productive sector and broadcasting them to millions of those predisposed to loving the state. Ah. So troll. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/91 "2019-09-13T20:43:03Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > Now, waitaminnit. Government is **part** of the productive economy, it is not some kind of parasitic growth on the private sector. Unless you subscribe to what economists call the “physical fallacy,” the belief that “real” wealth means only what you can hold in your hands. Soldiers and police officers and firefighters do not “produce” anything in that sense, but an economy can’t get along without them. Even **lawyers** are productive. I think of government like a wrapper. You can’t eat it, and it just ends up as trash you have to throw away, but you can’t have a Twinkie on the shelf for very long without it. I wouldn’t say the wrapper adds no value to the snack cake, it’s an important part of the process, even though it’s not itself food. Will may gripe that he doesn’t need the wrapper to enjoy his Twinkie but that’s missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/92 "2019-09-13T20:50:31Z")
Actually, his eating too many unwrapped/unprotected Twinkies may explain a bit. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/93 "2019-09-13T21:23:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’ve been staring at this for a while, and while i recognize individual words, I’m not quite grasping the meaning. > > Any help? Value is created when an exchange takes place wherein each party trades something he values less for something he values more. Government is involuntary. This exchange doesn’t take place. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/94 "2019-09-13T22:01:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Value is created when an exchange takes place wherein each party trades something he values less for something he values more. Government is involuntary. This exchange doesn’t take place. That’s a pretty narrow, fucked-up definition of value you have there WillFarnaby. Then again by your own definition you have no value to this board so you got something right. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/95 "2019-09-13T22:39:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Value is created when an exchange takes place wherein each party trades something he values less for something he values more. Government is involuntary. This exchange doesn’t take place. I’ll bite. I value my money less than I value (not a complete list): social safety nets for poor and at risk people watchdog agencies (EPA, FDA, FCC etc) that have to answer the public, not private sector nonprofit funded scientific and medical research service entities that must serve everyone equally (police, fire, etc). Not claiming the government is perfect at it, but it provides better service in these areas than a bunch of cobbled together, for profit, private sector entities likely would. And yes, private entities exist that do these things too. Nice part is I don’t have to find them, vet them, and get money to them individually. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/96 "2019-09-13T22:52:10Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Value is created when an exchange takes place wherein each party trades something he values less for something he values more. Government is involuntary. This exchange doesn’t take place. You presumably live in a country which is a participatory democracy. Taking part is voluntary. Oh, and if you spent even one day in a public school, you are, in fact, full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/97 "2019-09-13T23:24:22Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s a pretty narrow, fucked-up definition of value you have there WillFarnaby. > > Then again by your own definition you have no value to this board so you got something right. Yeah it’s this thing called economics. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I’ll bite. > > I value my money less than I value (not a complete list): > > social safety nets for poor and at risk people > > watchdog agencies (EPA, FDA, FCC etc) that have to answer the public, not private sector > > nonprofit funded scientific and medical research > > service entities that must serve everyone equally (police, fire, etc). > > Not claiming the government is perfect at it, but it provides better service in these areas than a bunch of cobbled together, for profit, private sector entities likely would. > > And yes, private entities exist that do these things too. Nice part is I don’t have to find them, vet them, and get money to them individually. Yes you have the option of voluntarily putting up money to pay for all of those things. You don’t and neither does anyone else who supports them. They can only be sold to the public if you promise to eat the rich in order to provide them. > [@Monty](#): > > You presumably live in a country which is a participatory democracy. Taking part is voluntary. Oh, and if you spent even one day in a public school, you are, in fact, full of shit. Yes never heard that one. Guess what I drive on the roads too Einstein. Taking part is voluntary. Being taxed, jailed or killed by the government is not. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/98 "2019-09-13T23:30:10Z")
You’re reply is incoherent, but as far I can tell, is a massive goal post move. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/99 "2019-09-14T01:52:39Z")
You claimed to value your money less than a list of things you haven’t traded your money for. This demonstrates that you are full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009/100 "2019-09-14T01:57:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You claimed to value your money less than a list of things you haven’t traded your money for. This demonstrates that you are full of shit. My taxes (which is money) pay for those services. I traded money with the government for things I want more. That was your definition of value. Ergo, government has value. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/propaganda-chief-takes-helm-at-npr/840009.md?page=6)