# Proper Grammar: Asian names and commas. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431 "2008-10-17T19:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/41 "2008-10-19T01:30:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > What would Kelsey say? > > D&R What does that mean? I don’t get your snark, and I am, of course, vexed by that realization. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/42 "2008-10-19T02:30:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What does that mean? I don’t get your snark, and I am, of course, vexed by that realization. I’m guessing that since the thread was originally titled “Proper Grammer…”, that it would be a reference to Kelsey Grammer. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/43 "2008-10-19T02:33:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > No, I’m having none of that. Asia is a big place. Using Asia when only East or Southeast Asia is meant is a big bugbear of mine. > > And Japan does not list surname first. I’mwith you. Using “Asian” in the way you object to also irritates me. It’s more than half of the world, by both population and area. The ethnocentricity of lumping the entire continent’s inhabitants together that way is breathtakingly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/44 "2008-10-19T02:40:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’mwith you. Using “Asian” in the way you object to also irritates me. It’s more than half of the world, by both population and area. The ethnocentricity of lumping the entire continent’s inhabitants together that way is breathtakingly stupid. Although I admit it doesn’t bother me nearly as much as someone saying “nucular” instead of “nuclear.” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/45 "2008-10-19T02:45:27Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Well, actually I can’t be sure how often it ever came up. It could very well simply be that after hearing all of the colorful terms for Asians by my compatriots in West Texas, Oriental seemed benign to say the least. IMHO oriental = slur is idiotic. like you, i grew up in the home of a WW2 and korean war combat vet. Oriental was not a slur coming out of his lips. that said, for whatever reason that i personally think are without merit, enough people in the US today do think oriental = slur that i avoid the term in favor of Asian. sigh ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/46 "2008-10-19T02:50:39Z")
I’m getting the feeling that maybe it’s more outdated than a flat-out slur, like maybe “Asiatic.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/47 "2008-10-19T03:01:16Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m getting the feeling that maybe it’s more outdated than a flat-out slur, like maybe “Asiatic.” I believe the problem with “Oriental” is in some ways akin to your objection to “Asian” being equivalent to Japanese+Chinese+Korean+Vietnamese. “Oriental” was typically used to mean “from that vast land area east of the Mediterranean.” (Yes, I know I’m over-simplifying.) Arabs, Turks, Chinese, Japanese, Kurds, Afghans, Turkmen, and a hundred other ethnic groups were dumped into the one broad category, as if the only thing that mattered about them was the fact that they weren’t of European descent. I try to avoid both words unless I attach a fairly specific modifier, unless for whatever reason I’m writing about the geology or geography of the continent. (and even then Asian an oversimplication) or referring to a historical use of the word Oriental. I’d rather say “Japanese,” “Indian,” or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/48 "2008-10-19T11:41:41Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The ethnocentricity of lumping the entire continent’s inhabitants together that way is breathtakingly stupid. Do you also have a problem with saying “African”? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431/49 "2008-10-19T18:51:20Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Do you also have a problem with saying “African”? Yep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proper-grammar-asian-names-and-commas/468431.md?page=2)