# Proposal: Disallow disparaging nicknames in the debate forums **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 16, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063 "2019-05-16T15:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/41 "2019-05-17T15:03:25Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Wider context: he loves to see his name in print. I am preventing the possibility of him or any of his supporters getting even the tiniest bit of affirmation from my posts. > > Or perhaps you missed the phrase that was included in your quote “if he knew about it.” On a side note: the Maxine Waters “45” business had always struck me as WAY more affirmation than just calling him “Trump”. It always sounded to me like a little needle aimed at the hearts of the people who didn’t want him to be president. Sort of like “Hey, remember that guy you laughed at and were soooOOOOoooo certain he couldn’t win? Yeah, that guy is now the 45th President of the United States. And don’t forget it.” YMMV, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/42 "2019-05-17T15:13:59Z")
Having sometimes referred to both the Demoncrats and Ripped-ublicans – well, at least I don’t do it very often about individuals except sometimes His Pope-ness. But I could well accept and live with such a rule. I do see it being the start of many an ATMB thread (“I didn’t know Liarump and Asshobama were disparaging”) but it is a good point that such games and attempts at humor can derail the discussion sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/43 "2019-05-18T14:28:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’d like to propose that disparaging nicknames for political figures (Cheeto, Obummer, Shrub) be disallowed in the debate forums (GD and Elections). I believe they already are in GQ. > > I propose this because those forums are meant for serious, cited discussions, not sarcastic, cite-free assertions. Using those disparaging names does zero to forward the conversation and only serves to piss people off. It invites the kinds of snarky, information-free responses that help derail conversations. > > Obviously, these are OK in the Pit. I’m fine with them in IMHO and MPSIMS because those aren’t really for serious discussions. It may be your opinion that Obama was a bummer and want to express it that way, fine. And, MPSIMS is already mundane and pointless, so snarky banter seems fine there. > > I’m really getting tired of the anger and the non-responsive responses in the debate forums and I’m hoping that stopping this childish practice may help. > > I’m not saying using Shrub or Cheeto-in-Chief should result in a warning, just a moderator note that it’s not helping the conversation and is probably harming it. Warnings would come for failure to follow moderator directions, of course. > > What do you all think? > > (I’d love to see “Democrat Party” also stopped, since it’s only a few posters that do it and they obviously do it to piss people off. Reading it is like hearing a record screeching to a halt in my head. I’d also like a pony.) I know that we are from opposite sides of the political spectrum, but I wholeheartedly agree. In addition, I think the rhetoric needs dialed back on many topics. I can be as guilty as the next poster when getting emotionally charged by talking about big government or the dangers of socialism, but it seems like the anti-Trump hatred on this board has reached insanity levels. If we are talking about immigration and detention at the border and a poster wants to talk about “children in cages” that’s fine, but if we are talking about, say, gun control, and a poster implies that Trump supporters want guns to kill Mexican or Muslim adults and put their children in concentration camps, then that poster should dial it back a bit. Or these _extreme_ strawman arguments like in the workplace touching thread where touching a woman on her wrist to get her attention that the meeting was running late is compared to male domination and sexual assault which is why we supported Kavanaugh and Trump the “pussy grabber.” I mean, we can have debate, get a little bit snippy with each other, but damn these things go into looneyland. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/44 "2019-05-18T15:29:25Z")
I’m opposed, for three reasons: First, it invites endless nitpicking over what counts as a “disparaging nickname”. Is “Raphael Cruz” disparaging? How about “Edward Kennedy”? Or “Beto O’Rourke”? Second, as **Bone** already pointed out, we’re allowed to disparage off-board figures in other ways, and making nicknames specifically off-limits seems inconsistent. Third, the natural consequence for doing this is that your audience will take you less seriously. Which already happens, even without a rule. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/45 "2019-05-18T15:41:12Z")
I like the proposal. I also have been avoiding typing the president’s name. And while I’m sure he won’t read this board, me might well have someone show him Google Analytics about how often his name was mentioned. But I don’t call him nasty names, because I agree that lowers the level of discourse. When people were throwing around “Hilary” I called him “The Donald” because it bothered me that women get first-named and men don’t. Yeah, I know, her husband “owns” that name in American politics. But I wanted some level of consistency between the two. I didn’t think “the Donald” was disparaging, but if other’s object, I’d be happy to drop it. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Thanks for the feedback! I agree it would be tricky to moderate. If the mods think this would be too much of a pain to moderate, I totally understand… > Regarding your example, I’m more of an Obama fan than a Trump fan. If some poster wrote “Obama is an asshole” it would bother me much less than “Obummer is an asshole.” The first one wouldn’t really bother me at all, in fact, whereas the second one would cause that record scratching sound in my head. Yeah, I am fine with someone who hates Obama saying “Obama is an asshole”, but I found the “Obummer” thing really grating. And I don’t like “Cheeto”, either, despite thinking that the current president is an asshole. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’m opposed, for three reasons: > First, it invites endless nitpicking over what counts as a “disparaging nickname”. Is “Raphael Cruz” disparaging? How about “Edward Kennedy”? Or “Beto O’Rourke”?.. I don’t see how any of those are disparaging. And all moderation is fussy and particular and requires judgment. Anyway, I understand if the mods don’t want to take this on, but I would be happy if they did. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/46 "2019-05-18T20:03:07Z")
Since the mods aren’t interested in wading into this mess, I’m pretty sure it’s not going to happen. So, I’ll ask those of us who play in GD and Elections to refrain from using silly disparaging names (“thump” is really getting on my nerves) and to request the same from people who use those names in threads you’re involved with (assuming that’s OK, junior-mod-wise). I think there’s a lot of “being a jerk” going on in Elections and GD lately. Maybe this thread will encourage people to stop it or report it when they see it. Thanks for listening to my whining! RS ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/47 "2019-05-26T14:41:09Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I try and restrict myself to Miss, Mrs. or Mr. -----. I mean, I don’t know them, so I don’t wanna use their first name only, and the honorific seems mild but respectful (of both the subject and the audience). > > I’m in favor of the OP’s proposal, of course. I’d like to suggest the possibility of using Ms. Marital status is irrelevant to 99.9% of discussions. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/48 "2019-05-26T17:06:54Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I’d like to suggest the possibility of using Ms. Marital status is irrelevant to 99.9% of discussions. I have a better idea. Why don’t we use whatever honorific the person in question prefers? I’d bet that Sec. Clinton goes by Mrs. Clinton, not Ms. Clinton, in her personal life. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/49 "2019-05-26T17:43:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I have a better idea. Why don’t we use whatever honorific the person in question prefers? > > I’d bet that Sec. Clinton goes by Mrs. Clinton, not Ms. Clinton, in her personal life. I’m fine with that. My main issue is with Miss, not Mrs, when it’s not known to be that person’s preferred honorific, thanks muchly. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/50 "2019-05-26T19:09:11Z")
Personally, I generally use just the last name, unless that’s ambiguous. So I wouldn’t say “Hillary said…”, or “Mrs. Clinton said…”; I’d just use “Clinton said…” (it might have been ambiguous a decade ago, but nowadays, anyone referring to “Clinton” in a political context almost certainly means Hillary, not Bill). And I also do this for politicians who have self-branded using their first name, such as O’Rourke or Buttigieg. I just find it easier to use the same consistent style for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/51 "2019-05-26T21:39:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I have a better idea. Why don’t we use whatever honorific the person in question prefers? > > I’d bet that Sec. Clinton goes by Mrs. Clinton, not Ms. Clinton, in her personal life. Why do you think that? I bet she goes by “Hillary” or “Senator Clinton”, depending on the circumstances. But many politically inclined women of her generation used “Ms”, I’d be a little surprised if her preference is “Mrs”. I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets called that, of course, but i doubt that’s what her friends use. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/52 "2019-05-27T00:11:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Why do you think that? > > I bet she goes by “Hillary” or “Senator Clinton”, depending on the circumstances. > > But many politically inclined women of her generation used “Ms”, I’d be a little surprised if her preference is “Mrs”. I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets called that, of course, but i doubt that’s what her friends use. Why would she go by Senator Clinton? Secretary of State is much higher in protocol than a Senator. I also doubt that a 71 year old married lady of her stature goes by Ms. Do you have a cite she has ever done so? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/53 "2019-05-27T01:02:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > On a side note: the Maxine Waters “45” business had always struck me as WAY more affirmation than just calling him “Trump”. Dumb question, perhaps: WTF does this have to do with Maxine Waters? Referring to a President by number seems to have become a thing with Bush Sr (41) and Bush Jr (43) as an unambiguous way to refer to one or the other. ([Pic of them wearing ‘41’ and ‘43’ caps](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EFK652/us-president-george-w-bush-sits-in-a-golf-cart-with-his-father-former-EFK652.jpg).) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/54 "2019-05-27T01:08:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I also doubt that a 71 year old married lady of her stature goes by Ms. Why? She would have been 24 when _Ms._ magazine published its first issue, and she was certainly enough of a feminist at that point to buy into the notion that whether a woman was single or married shouldn’t be treated as the most essential fact that others needed to know about her. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/55 "2019-05-27T01:11:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why would she go by Senator Clinton? Technically, at least, [the title of Senator stays with the person. The title of Secretary doesn’t](http://www.formsofaddress.info/former.html#FO010). > [@](#): > > he or she is no longer Mr./Madam Secretary or Secretary (Name) since there will be a new holder of this only-one-person-at-a-time office. Generals, judges, ambassadors, senators, and doctors keep their personal ranks forever, but being a secretary grants no personal rank that continues. Like the parking space, preferred seating, and higher precedence … forms of address are a courtesy of the office, and stay with the office. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I also doubt that a 71 year old married lady of her stature goes by Ms. She went by Hillary Rodham for some years after she got married. I’ll be pretty surprised if she’s never used Ms.; which started coming into use around when she was in her early 20’s. Most of the references I can find call her either just Hillary or just Clinton or just Hillary Clinton; at least, when they’re not calling her Senator or (during the appropriate time) Secretary. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/56 "2019-05-27T01:25:08Z")
A prescribed honorific signifies no honor. I do not feel more respect from an insult delivered with Mister than I would without it. People who cling to formulaic expressions of respect do so out of a very strong personal feeling that their worth is imperceptible without them. They are often quite accurate in that assumption. A parallel, although dissimilar condition is revealed by the use of “clever” disparagement delivered in the grammatical position of the general prescribed honorific. When insult is a preface to identification, it position is sufficient to indicate that it is not inherent to the total meaning of the discourse, and it must be propped up with any substance of the message. Clear logical presentation of the ethical content of the persons conduct, or statements is not enhanced by either, and is shown to be lacking in significance in the opinion of the writer by its presence alone. Tris * * * If they didn’t notice he was a son of a bitch, calling him one won’t inform them. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/57 "2019-05-27T01:51:51Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Technically, at least, [the title of Senator stays with the person. The title of Secretary doesn’t](http://www.formsofaddress.info/former.html#FO010). You’re right, thanks for the clarification. Now, does anyone have a cite that the lady in question prefers to be addressed as Ms.? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/58 "2019-05-27T02:03:59Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Dumb question, perhaps: WTF does this have to do with Maxine Waters? Referring to a President by number seems to have become a thing with Bush Sr (41) and Bush Jr (43) as an unambiguous way to refer to one or the other. ([Pic of them wearing ‘41’ and ‘43’ caps](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EFK652/us-president-george-w-bush-sits-in-a-golf-cart-with-his-father-former-EFK652.jpg).) Because she’s the one I hear most often referring to President Trump as ‘45’. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/59 "2019-05-27T03:24:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re right, thanks for the clarification. > > Now, does anyone have a cite that the lady in question prefers to be addressed as Ms.? Does it matter??? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063/60 "2019-05-27T03:45:56Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Does it matter??? Apparently, it matters to the poster who proclaimed that Ms. should be the preferred form of address. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-disallow-disparaging-nicknames-in-the-debate-forums/834063.md?page=4)