# Proposal to explicitly ban sexism from the game room **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 9, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338 "2021-08-09T21:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/61 "2021-08-11T17:43:10Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > (FWIW, and granted FIFA rankings are pretty problematic, the USMNT is anticipated to be ranked the 9th best men’s team in the world when the rankings are updated - not exactly trash) try being a Canadian soccer fan. Our women just won the gold medal. The men are… uhhh… not going to win a gold medal. See, this is another aspect of the men/women sports thing I find fascinating; why is that? Why is Canada really, really, really good at women’s soccer, but just grotesque at men’s soccer? Isn’t that weird? Like, we’re amazingly good at both men’s and women’s hockey, and okay but not great at men’s baseball and women’s softball - like, not the best, but medal contenders. But in soccer, specifically, there’s just a huge gulf in their relative rankings. I don’t know why that is. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/62 "2021-08-11T17:59:07Z")
Personally, I think that unless the topic is something like Which do you like better, men’s or women’s sports?, adding “I don’t like women’s sports” is a little bit sexist. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/63 "2021-08-11T17:59:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > try being a Canadian soccer fan. Our women just won the gold medal. The men are… uhhh… not going to win a gold medal. A bit of tangent, but well, one of the differences is that for the men, the Olympics are a U-23 tournament. Canada is getting much better on the men’s side! They made the semi-finals of the CONCACAF Gold Cup and that was without their 3 best players (who play in Europe). I think they’ll make the 2022 World Cup. As for differences in soccer… well, one of the reasons I’d wager is that the rest of the world didn’t give a crap about women’s soccer until fairly recently. And, at least in the US, soccer is considered an equal of basketball or any other sports for young women to dedicate their training for. Not so much on the men’s side. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/64 "2021-08-11T18:12:21Z")
So the poster above me can list several “hot button” topics that have been discussed a hundred times over the last few years. But if I agree with him, and add a topic that has only been discussed over the last two months, I’m over the line? I was replying directly to his post, which you seem to think is fine. Maybe you can give me a list of subjects that I am allowed to bring up about moderating and how many times I’m allowed to bring them up. I would guess that most of the people in this thread, me included, have posted more about sexism than I have about pitting posters. I don’t remember any mod notes about “hot topic” for anyone from that, ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/65 "2021-08-11T18:22:48Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Accept that your sexism is misogyny, It could also be misandry. To say sexism only goes one way, is in fact sexist. Then there are transphobia issues surrounding this. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/66 "2021-08-11T19:00:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Those two people will not be playing in the WNBA and NBA, respectively. No one is comparing them. I’m talking about your definition of the word “athletic”. Because by that definition, the girl is less athletic than the man in that example. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/67 "2021-08-11T19:15:08Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m talking about your definition of the word “athletic”. I think the point is that the definition he gave (“the ability to excel in a given sport or athletic endeavor”) was specific to the context of professional sports. He might have a different definition for a charity marathon or similar event where the two people you described might be compared directly. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/68 "2021-08-11T20:33:00Z")
> [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > It could also be misandry. 60-some-odd posts in, and finally we get to talk about what’s really important: sexism against men! On a more serious note, I’m voting the first option, under the following logic. The comment made by dale that started this whole thing should have, by itself, been modable. I understand it wasn’t. Therefore, the rule should change to make this modable. I agree both with @MrDibble’s caveat that there’s no reason this rule change should be specific to the Game Room, but also with the concern that we should be just a little more specific about what the contours of the rule should be beyond “no sexism!” I think forbidding the showing of contempt for any group of people based on sex or gender identity with respect to any of their activities of life (including, in this example, sports) would rule out comments like Dale’s while allowing respectful discussion of why the NBA’s ratings are so much higher than the WNBA’s. But other formulations of the rule may be superior. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/69 "2021-08-11T20:44:17Z")
No, that’s not how that definition works. There’s no context-dependent variant of athleticism. If someone displays athleticism, it’s a physical property of them, not whatever sport they happen to be engaging in. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/70 "2021-08-11T20:48:37Z")
Is it really any less offensive if everyone hints and alludes at something instead of saying it out loud? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/71 "2021-08-11T21:01:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I think the point is that the definition he gave (“the ability to excel in a given sport or athletic endeavor”) was specific to the context of professional sports. He might have a different definition for a charity marathon or similar event where the two people you described might be compared directly. And my point is that he should reasonably expect people reading his posts to see a definition he apparently uses himself in other contexts. There’s nothing about the word in general use that indicates ‘This word means something different if you’re specifically discussing professional sports’. > [@Velocity](#): > > Is it really any less offensive if everyone hints and alludes at something instead of saying it out loud? “Everyone” isn’t doing so. Most people seem to be able to discuss sports without getting into this tangle. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/72 "2021-08-11T21:16:25Z")
I think we’re mostly in broad agreement that sexist talk (i.e., “she should get into the kitchen and make me a sandwich”) is off-limits and reality-based or opinion-based talk ("the WNBA is less popular so it’s right that their players should be paid less than the NBA’s) isn’t. Unless someone disagrees, it sounds mostly like we are talking past each other. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/73 "2021-08-11T21:19:52Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And my point is that he should reasonably expect people reading his posts to see a definition he apparently uses himself in other contexts. And this is why it is _not_ simple and obvious what counts as sexism. When someone writes a comment, they have some idea in their head that they are trying to convey. But most comments can be interpreted in several different ways, from the absurd: > [@BigT](#): > > You have just argued that a group of men is better than the corresponding group of women. You didn’t argue that they are better at a particular trait. You didn’t say they are better at something. Just, altogether, they are better. That seems obviously something to avoid saying. To the reasonable but not intended: > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > There’s nothing about the word in general use that indicates ‘This word means something different if you’re specifically discussing professional sports’. Anticipating all the different interpretations that a variety of people might come up with, and trying to avoid them takes effort and time. Maybe it’s necessary in GB to avoid misunderstandings, but I would hope that in forums like the Games Room, people would be able to relax and have a conversation without second guessing everything they say, or feeling like they have to avoid certain topics entirely. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/74 "2021-08-11T21:22:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think we’re mostly in broad agreement that sexist talk (i.e., “she should get into the kitchen and make me a sandwich”) is off-limits and reality-based or opinion-based talk ("the WNBA is less popular so it’s right that their players should be paid less than the NBA’s) isn’t. I’m not at all convinced there is agreement on the latter. I bet at least one person will think saying women should be paid less is sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/75 "2021-08-12T00:25:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m not at all convinced there is agreement on the latter. I bet at least one person will think saying women should be paid less is sexist. It opens up a massive can of worms about equal pay for equal work, that’s for sure. No sensible person thinks women should be paid less in a regular office/retail/hospitality etc job when they’re doing the same work as everyone else - but how does that translate to something like professional sports? Both men’s and women’s teams are incredibly talented and athletic, performing at top levels and even on the world stage - but when the men’s league brings in ultramegabucks and the women’s league is “only” bringing in superbucks by comparison (through no fault of the athletes themselves), should they be getting the same financial reward as the ultramegabucks earning teams? Isn’t that devaluing the ‘work’ of the ultramegabucks teams, who might ask “Why do we get paid the same as the teams that make way, way less for the industry?” Even I’m thoroughly ambivalent about the whole thing, because I think both points of view on that issue have valid points. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/76 "2021-08-12T03:26:04Z")
> [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > To say sexism only goes one way, is in fact sexist. I didn’t say sexism only goes one way. I said this: … Explicitly ban sexism from ALL threads, ALL forums, ALL the time, from ALL posters.… In fact, I led with that. I take offense at your selective cropping and it’s inference. Sexism is sexism. Misandry is sexism. Misogyny is sexism. The sexism we are addressing in this instance is misogyny, “women’s sports are unwatchable”. [paraphrased]. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/77 "2021-08-12T06:39:07Z")
That could almost be a valid point. Unless we look at soccer where the women’s team are stars, international celebrities. And nobody can name one male US soccer player. Yet the men get paid better. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/78 "2021-08-12T07:21:54Z")
I don’t follow sports so couldn’t name a US female soccer player, but will take your word for it that they’re international celebrities. If they’re the franchise leaders I don’t think it’s unreasonable they should get more than the people from the ‘unknowns’ - but I simply don’t know enough (anything) about the situation to have any insights as to why the imbalance exists in the first place or what factors have been used in deciding who gets paid what. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/79 "2021-08-12T07:33:11Z")
None of this is true. Go to any country except the USA and no one can name a single USA womans player while players like Gio Reyna (Dortmund) and Christian Pulisic (Chelsea) and Weston McKennie (Juventus) are playing at the top clubs in the world. The average attendance of the MSL was in 2019 12297 for 27 teams while it was 7337 for 10 teams in the NWSL. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338/80 "2021-08-12T09:09:17Z")
I’m talking about the national teams. (I couldn’t name a single US football club to save my life) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proposal-to-explicitly-ban-sexism-from-the-game-room/948338.md?page=5)