If the person has a gun or what looks like a gun, and the visibility is so bad that you couldn’t possibly tell the difference (not sure why anyone would put themselves in that position) then only an idiot would say that the police shouldn’t treat it as if it was a gun. But because this was on my mind today I noticed a person (about the 75’ range that pkbites mentioned above) pulling a cell phone from their pocket and up to their ear. Along the way it was ‘pointed’ in my direction. At no point could I not identify the device as anything other than a cell phone.
Just the way a cell phone is held should be enough to not identify it as a pistol. And as most encounters are at a much closer distance, then only the legally blind could make the mistake of thinking a phone was a gun. Or those with a desire to kill someone.
Here are a couple of images of the suspect in the recent Toronto van attack:
Would you have faulted the officer for firing in that situation? Or you think it is completely fair to expect cops in situations like that to correctly identify the object in his hand as a cell phone before they have to make the decision whether to fire or trust their determination that it wasn’t a gun?
Not sure what your point is here. That cops can act professionally and rationally even when there is a possibility that the suspect has a gun?
I’ll go back to that Mesa incident. The cop has a rifle and is within 20’ or so of the suspect. He is in no danger from the ‘suspect’ at any point in time. Even if the suspect had a gun, he’d be dead before he’d have a chance to point it at someone. All the cop had to do was remain calm and not escalate the situation.
Considering the cop DIDN’T fire, I don’t really see your point. He was obviously able to ascertain he wasn’t holding a weapon, no matter what your cell phone picture might make it look like.
Of course, they are roughly two or three times more likely to have committed a violent offense (cite) so your allegation that police shootings demonstrate that police are profiling black people for brutality is completely unfounded.
Regards,
Shodan
White folks love to trot out these tired-ass arguments in order to justify the continued dehumanization of minorities. White males rape, grope, and sexually assault white women yet they, for the most part, escape the brunt of police brutality. If memory serves, didn’t white folk let the Brock Turner get away with raping a white woman behind a garbage dumpster truck? Didn’t his white father refer to the rape as “20 minutes of action”? White folk didn’t care. No one in the street. Blessed Be the Fruit, I suppose.
White folk claim to be defenders of white maidenhood yet white folks are its most profane defilers. Guess which ethnic group commits the most rape and sexual assault against white women?It’s white folks across the political isle: Judge Roy Moore (white), Senator Byrd (white), Bill Clinton (white), Donald Trump (white) Harvey Weinstein (white), Chris Savino (white), Robert Scoble (white), Lockhart Steele (white), John Besh (white), Terry Richardson (white), Leon Wieseltier (white), Knight Landesman (white), Rick Najera (white), Mark Halperin (white), Ken Baker (white), Kevin Spacey (white), Hamilton Fish (white), Michael Oreskes (white), Andy Dick (white), Kirt Webster (white), Brett Ratner (white), Jeff Hoover (white), David Guillod (white), Benjamin Genocchio (white), Bill O’Reilly (white), Roger Ailes (white), Louis CK (white), and even Thomas Jefferson (white). The list goes and on ad nauseum both past and present.
You can keep your violence card. A group of armed white folks raided a government building and pointed guns at the officers. Over some fucking grazing fees . . . and they lived. Can you imagine if a group of black men pointed guns anyone? If a group of blacks pointed guns at officers, white folks would’ve ordered the carpet bombing of the City of Cleveland* and* Philadelphia in retaliation.
To the contrary, that is exactly what you would expect to see when law enforcement profiles black people.
You’re wrong on at least two points:
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The government building was unoccupied at the time. There were no officers there to point guns at.
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LaVoy Finicum did not live.
If you had good reasons to believe that your life was in danger, yes. If you just thought he was scary looking, no.
What if he was scary looking, then he quickly reached towards his belt? Then can I shoot him?
This doesn’t make a lot of sense. If police are targeting blacks because they’re black, why are most of the police shootings of white people?
Regards,
Shodan
In case you haven’t noticed, there are five times as many white people as black people.
I made this same point back in post #30.
We’ve come full circle, then, and he still doesn’t get it.
Regards,
Shodan
This is beyond silly. We’ve now moved from “it’s ok that cops shoot at people because they mistook a cellphone for a gun” (which is already somewhat beyond the pale because the two items look nothing alike and are held very differently) to “it’s ok that cops shoot at people with actual, identified cellphones on the remote chance that that cellphone may actually be a gun !”
Not "actual, identified cellphones ", smallish black objects, that when pulled out quickly, do look like guns.
And why, when a cop shouts “freeze!” or “hands up!” do you quickly reach for your cell phone?
You tried. But here’s a better solution: stop trying and let them drown in ignorance.
Then what is the relevance of your “here look I found guns disguised as cellphones on the internet !” ?
Well, I’m white and no longer young+long haired so cops tend to be civil to me and not immediately shout at me nor shove guns in my face these days, but one reason to immediately pull a cell phone when a cop is being a dick that springs to mind would be : to record the cops being dicks so you can later prove it in court and it’s not just his word against yours and he has a badge.
Another reason to put one’s hand into one’s pockets, waistband, fanny pack, jacket pocket or glove compartment would be : the cop *just *shouted at the person to show them some ID (as happened w/ Philando Castile)
The statistics have already been done, bro. Unfortunatey, it’s behind a pay wall. Haha, just kidding. It’s open access.
In the Age of Trump, I know whiteness is important in vetting whether information is correct or not. If it helps in your analysis of the linked paper, please know that the author of the linked article is white, the prestigious school (UCLA) that oversaw the work is majority white, and the editor of the prestigious journal (PLOS) that published the article is also white.