Proposed: Move thread games back to MPSIMS where they're a better fit.

[Johnny_Bravo]

@twickster

Because it’s not clear which are “real” or “good” games, which thus do (don’t?) belong in MPSIMS, and which aren’t. It’s too confusing for not only casual readers, but the mods.

Why would this magically become a problem if MPSIMS became the place for game threads? It’s not a problem now.

Currently: Game threads go in the game room.
Proposal: Game threads go in MPSIMS.

How would that be unclear?

[EllisDee]

@twickster

Because it’s not clear which are “real” or “good” games, which thus do (don’t?) belong in MPSIMS, and which aren’t. It’s too confusing for not only casual readers, but the mods.

I don’t follow. Right now, they’re all in the Game Room. That wouldn’t be the case if the confusion you cited actually existed.

[Siam_Sam]

@TroutMan

Honest question - why do you think they fit the Game Room better than MPSIMS? Most of the comments are from people who want them moved, and I’d appreciate the perspective of an active participant in these threads.

Because … they’re games.

[TubaDiva]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

twickster, I think you’re misunderstanding. Nobody, as far as I can tell, thinks there’s a distinction to be made between “real” games and fake(?) games, or between “good” games and bad(?) games.

All threadgames, whether good or bad, real or fake (whatever that would mean), would go in MPSIMS instead of Game Room, according to this proposal; the current position is that all threadgames, whether good or bad, real or fake, go in Game Room.

The distinction isn’t based on judging the authenticity or goodness of a threadgame’s game. The distinction is based on whether it’s a game at all, versus being a discussion of a game. And that an extremely easy distinction to be made in virtually all cases.

The choice was made a while back to place game threads in The Game Room.

The moderation staff felt that was the appropriate place for them at the start. And really nothing has happened to make us choose differently or reverse this decision.

We will not divert threads from their current home to ghettoize them or merely hide them from sight; that’s bad for business.

New forums have been added over the years out of necessity; it may well happen again. But not today.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@TubaDiva

The choice was made a while back to place game threads in The Game Room.

The moderation staff felt that was the appropriate place for them at the start. And really nothing has happened to make us choose differently or reverse this decision.

We will not divert threads from their current home to ghettoize them or merely hide them from sight; that’s bad for business.

New forums have been added over the years out of necessity; it may well happen again. But not today.

Tubadiva, what you wrote has nothing to do with what I said. I was explaining twickster’s misunderstanding of the proposal, not reasserting it; you don’t actually need to use words like “ghettoize” to misrepresent the proposal further, unless MPSIMS is a ghetto now.

While you may be frustrated at some folks’ incendiary language around this issue, you don’t help matters when you use such loaded and inaccurate language yourself.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Yeah, what the hell were you thinking, LHoD?

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

edit: er, I can’t type that right after chiding Tubadiva about incendiary posting. not as funny as I thought, sorry.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

edit: er, I can’t type that right after chiding Tubadiva about incendiary posting. not as funny as I thought, sorry.

. . . while using some inflammatory language yourself.

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

twickster, I think you’re misunderstanding. Nobody, as far as I can tell, thinks there’s a distinction to be made between “real” games and fake(?) games, or between “good” games and bad(?) games.

Now see, I don’t know if you’re straight up about this or not.

I’m thinking you already know this, but I’m going to give it a go anyway.

In MPSIMS, there’s a rule about no post count padding parties. If the games go to MPSIMS, then the mods there will have to make a determination whether the game falls under that or not. A “good” game will remain and a “fake” game would be closed. That’s where the confusion would lie in modding those games in another forum.

[SenorBeef]

Your argument is that MPSIMS has a certain standard for the quality of their discussions - a forum named for literally “mundane pointless stuff I must share” - and, hence, MPSIMS is above that content, but that it’s suitable for the game room, which attempts to be as serious a place for discussion as Café Society, just with different topics?

That’s applying a rule quite oddly.

[Terminus_Est]

There are already games in MPSIMS, like the Pure random silliness thread? How is that allowed but not post-count parties?

[TubaDiva]

@Terminus_Est

There are already games in MPSIMS, like the Pure random silliness thread? How is that allowed but not post-count parties?

The bar in MPSIMS is not as high as in some other forums but you usually do have to have some content.

As to how this is interpreted, I’m afraid you’ll need to take that up with the MPSIMS mods. Not every situation is the same and sometimes there’s different outcomes accordingly.

[Little_Nemo]

I’ll admit I haven’t been keeping up on this debate. It seems like a minor issue to me. But here’s my thoughts anyway.

It’s the Game Forum. It’s where games belong and it’s where people would be looking for them. Moving the games out of the Game Forum just seems silly.

I understand some people are upset about the number of game threads in the Game Forum. But if we cleared them all out and moved them to MPSIMS, we’d be having this same debate within a few months with people asking why MPSIMS has so many game threads.

I’m okay with the idea of labeling the game threads with [game]. It doesn’t seem necessary to me but if it makes people happy it doesn’t bother me.

But the idea of having one label of games, one label for discussions of games, and one label for discussions of sports seems to be going overboard to me. The topic of a discussion should hopefully be obvious from the thread title. Why do we need labels?

[bucketybuck]

@TubaDiva

The bar in MPSIMS is not as high as in some other forums

Clearly the bar in MPSIMS is not as low as in a certain other forum then.

@Little_Nemo

But if we cleared them all out and moved them to MPSIMS, we’d be having this same debate within a few months with people asking why MPSIMS has so many game threads.

That does kinda point in the direction of the real problem doesn’t it!

[jabiru]

What have you got against MPSIMS? I have read the previous threads about game threads in the Game Room and the objections to them. I don’t go to the Game Room very often (usually only in cricket season, may it arrive soon) but if these threads get moved to MPSIMS, won’t that just push everything else off the front page there?

[voltaire]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

twickster, I think you’re misunderstanding. Nobody, as far as I can tell, thinks there’s a distinction to be made between “real” games and fake(?) games, or between “good” games and bad(?) games.

All threadgames, whether good or bad, real or fake (whatever that would mean), would go in MPSIMS instead of Game Room, according to this proposal; the current position is that all threadgames, whether good or bad, real or fake, go in Game Room.

But that’s not even true - it’s much more muddled than that. See below.

@Heffalump_and_Roo

I’m thinking you already know this, but I’m going to give it a go anyway.

In MPSIMS, there’s a rule about no post count padding parties. If the games go to MPSIMS, then the mods there will have to make a determination whether the game falls under that or not. A “good” game will remain and a “fake” game would be closed. That’s where the confusion would lie in modding those games in another forum.

Thing is, as has been pointed out, there are *already *some thread games in MPSIMS. If anything, putting *all *the thread games in MPSIMS would lead to *fewer *determinations having to be made about what is or isn’t post-padding, or what’s a “good” game or a “fake” game, and it would lead to *less *confusion (and frustration) about same. The way it is now, it seems that often the “good” games go in MPSIMS and the “fake” games go in the Game Room. It’s more complicated under the status quo.

But if we can’t move all the thread games to MPSIMS, here’s a bright idea, let’s just settle on moving thread games to their own subforum at the earliest convenient and workable date.

Okay, maybe if we take up a collection to pay Jerry et al. for their time?

[Sailboat]

I like being able to read about people’s lives in MPSIMS without wading through the post-count games. Although I like discussions ABOUT games too, I would much rather pick through the current Game Room for that than ruin MPSIMS. There are a few post-count-padding-type threads there already, as noted, which I generally skip over.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Heffalump_and_Roo

. . . while using some inflammatory language yourself.

You mean in the post I got rid of, or something else?

Now see, I don’t know if you’re straight up about this or not.

I’m thinking you already know this, but I’m going to give it a go anyway.

In MPSIMS, there’s a rule about no post count padding parties. If the games go to MPSIMS, then the mods there will have to make a determination whether the game falls under that or not. A “good” game will remain and a “fake” game would be closed. That’s where the confusion would lie in modding those games in another forum.

I’m ALWAYS straight up, dude.

I’ve seen the post-padding party rule before, but I hadn’t thought about it in this context. I appreciate your bringing it up, because it applies, and gently suggest that you can bring such things up without implying that other folks are dishonestly not thinking about them.

Thing is, to the best of my knowledge, it’s not a rule peculiar to MPSIMS, rather a rule that folks have only thought was necessary there. Is post-padding party okay in great debates? GQ? BBQ?

I’m assuming it’s not, it’s just not a problem there.

But if threadgames are post-padding parties, then they’re a problem wherever they appear.

[Munch]

@jabiru

but if these threads get moved to MPSIMS, won’t that just push everything else off the front page there?

Why yes, it would. Almost as if the sheer volume of game threads is such that it dominates whatever forum it’s in, and obscures every other conversation going on in it. As such, it would be really helpful if they were confined in their own subforum under the Game Room.

I’m a pretty regular Game Room visitor, and have rarely participated in the threadgames. It’s gotten a lot harder to wade through them to find the threads I am interested in. I’m glad people are having fun in them - our membership is down, and if that’s what’s keeping some people around, I hope the light bill is that much easier to pay because of their traffic. But from the sheer momentum of those threads, I find the argument that a subforum for them would hurt the board to be extremely lacking. I simply hear it as “we don’t wanna”.

[Dead_Cat]

Never one to be afraid of trying where others have failed, let me see if I can knock this one on the head once and for all (entirely unofficial of course as I am not a member of the staff here).

1. In the not so distant past, threads that were pretty much just post-count padding with no real content used to be summarily locked, it was understood they were basically against board rules.

2. A few years ago, during a time when the then owners of the SDMB were actively looking to make it a money-making proposition in its own right, and staff such as TubaDiva, Lynn Bodoni, xash, Marley23, C K Dexter Haven (headed up by Ed Zotti) were actively involved in this process and were also Administrators for the board, The Game Room was created as a new forum for discussions of games and sports. This was a good move and helped relieve pressure on Cafe Society, as well as encouraging new traffic. As has been pointed out, creating a new forum is a relatively simple task provided you have Administrator privileges.

3. At some stage, games started being played in this forum. It is The Game Room, after all - why not? It started out, IIRC, with a mixture of fairly intellectual games such as Botticelli and Diplomacy, rather silly things like Mornington Crescent (in which I was a frequent poster), and things in the middle like Mafia and Family Feud. Still, there were only a handful of them at any one time, and all had a distinct end point (yes, even - perhaps especially - MC :)). They were barely noticeable, in my view.

4. We have now reached a point where these game threads have multiplied such that several posters, including me, the OP, and many others in this thread, view them as a real issue. The new system of including “GAME:” in their titles will help slightly, but doesn’t go far enough.

5. Many people would like to go back to the situation as it was in point 1 above, but that isn’t happening because the board gets revenue from advertising, and disallowing these threads would almost certainly have a negative effect on the net post/view count, presumably these figures are important for advertisers and revenue.

6. As such, another possible solution is to have a separate forum for these threads. That isn’t going to happen because contrary to the situation in point 2 above (dating back to when The Game Room was created), there are currently no regular posters with Administrator privileges. This seems to be a policy decision by the ultimate owners of the SDMB which the SDMB staff are powerless to change. As such, even a simple task such as creating (or even renaming) a new forum is off the table at the moment. As has been pointed out, this is a sad situation, it must be particularly sad for the staff themselves who have selflessly given thousands of hours of their time to the board over the years. But ultimately that is a separate discussion for another time.

7. The Moderators in charge of Cafe Society and MPSIMS, quite understandably, do not wish to simply shift the problem to their forums. Ultimately, they are right that this is not a solution.

Conclusion: I don’t think there is any conspiracy by the staff here against sports and games discussion. I personally suspect that given a free hand, they would simply create a new forum for “Thread Games” and be done with it. That is not an option, so basically we are stuck with what we’ve got, unless and until the policy of the SDMB owner (or the owner itself) changes. Shame, but I guess we’ll KBO as usual. Worse things have happened to this board and it still survives.

[jabiru]

@Munch

As such, it would be really helpful if they were confined in their own subforum under the Game Room… I simply hear it as “we don’t wanna”.

Can’t argue with that. If I were more interested in sport or games, I’m sure I’d hate the vast number of game threads which people are complaining about in that forum.

I agree with Sailboat’s comment about people posting about their lives in MPSIMS. That’d be lost if the board was swamped with game threads.