Proposed: Move thread games back to MPSIMS where they're a better fit.

About This Message Board
141

Fine. I can categorically state that there’s more Sports/Game talk and/or more Thread Games talk than that useless “Barn House” forum generates. Hell, there’s probably more Sports/Games activity than there’s been in “Barn House”, “SD-Chicago” and whatever the name of the “For Sale” forum is, combined.

Fact:[ul]
[li]Marketplace–started 12/2010–total number of threads (including stickies) 320[/li][li]SD-Chicago–started 12/2008–total number of threads (including stickies) 656[/li][li]Barn House–started 9/2008–total number of threads (including stickies) 242. In six years. 242 threads. Eyeballing it, it looks like a thread gets an average of about 8 posts. That’s ~1936 total posts. In six years. [/li][li]As a basis for comparison, this Thread Game thread, started in 4/2014, has 2,871 posts.[/li][li]One more: This Thread Game thread, started 2/2014, has 29,913 posts…that’s more posts in a single thread, than there are threads in all three loser (based on posts) forums combined. [/li][/ul]

You can’t create new forums because some pointy-haired boss type removed admin rights from everyone…fine. We get that and sympathize. We’ve all had a mentally defective twerp who was above us on the decision-making-ladder screwing up our lives to “help” us or for “safety” reasons or whatever.

But, you’ve also said that having dead forums is a drag on the board. It’s like having abandoned, rotting houses on your street–they’re nothing but meth-labs and crack-houses waiting to happen (or…well…the Internet discussion forum equivalent thereof)

Let’s solve two problems with one fix:

  1. Resolved: SD-Chicago, that dumb “Want Ads” forum and “The Barn House” are all dead.
  2. There’s clearly a conflict between discussion threads and thread-games threads–but both generate considerably more traffic than any of those three forums (and probably generate more traffic in a month than all three forums have ever made combined)
  3. So the obvious solution is to tell the Game-Threads fans to go take over one of the other forums.

Disadvantages:
I think you need admin rights to change the forum names (but I think mods can change the forum descriptions–in which case you could have “THE BARN HOUSE For thread games like Mafia and Blah-Blah and Such-and-Such”) Granted this is awkward, but it’s better than the status quo.

Advantages
It will get at least one formerly dead forum active. Since dead forums are bad and discourage traffic which is needed, it will–100% guaranteed–produce more threads than any of those three loser forums.

It will allow MORE sports/game talk to florish. Remember the hysterical opposition to spinning politics/elections into it’s own forum because “It will kill GD”? GD clearly hasn’t been “killed”. If anything, it’s thriving because the top 100 posts aren’t hot-button political partisan topic of the minute. There’s actually threads on religion, philosophy, (pseudo)science–the stuff I enjoy reading GD for, AND the political junkies who want to discuss the partisan topic du jour, they’re thriving too.

142

When these kind of threads started popping up, I thought they’d run their course, both individual threads and the basic idea. Instead, they just keep going and going, with new variations popping up now and then to add to the clutter.

I tried viewing the Game forum sorted by thread start time, instead of by last post time. There’s like six of these threads on the whole first page. Six. (It’s kind of a thing of beauty to look at, compared to what we have now.)
Note: This is not a solution to the problem! No one would be able to bump a discussion thread.

143

You really need to cut this shit out. It’s only hurting your argument. Stop with the projecting of motives onto the moderators. Respond to their posts and statements. Ignore whatever you feel are their motivations, because all it does is make you look like you are arguing in bad faith. Yes, I know, you feel like they are the ones arguing in bad faith. Tough noogies. This flips back on you. And I say this as someone who has tried to defend your position.

That’s just bullshit. The commonality is there only because you’ve decided it’s there. There is NO objective reason why thread games are required to be in the same forum as discussions of sports, board games, video games, and card games. Only the commonality of the word “game”.

Furthermore, many of the “games” are only games in the loosest sense. There’s no real game to “post any one word”. At least posting a new word by changing one letter is a word puzzle game that has a long history of being played in paper form (in puzzle books, along with crosswords and anagrams and sudoku). Posting sequential movie quotes is far more a Cafe Society fit, tying in to movies, than it is a game fit, tying in with NASCAR, football, D&D, spades, Magic: The Gathering, Pokemon, Grand Theft Auto, or whatever the latest of any of those things is.

Posting only in random quotes isn’t really a game - there’s no way to measure success and no way to determine an end point or assign a winner and/or losers. It’s an activity, like juggling is an activity, or basketweaving is an activity, or quilting.

While it is true, all members are potential viewers of every forum - we all have access - many posters do view the boards by forums, and do so by selecting which forums to view and which to ignore. There are plenty of members who ignore Great Debates, or MPSIMS, or Comments on Cecil’s Columns, or the BBQ Pit. It may be too much to say there are distinct pools, there’s going to be a lot of overlap because everyone chooses their own interests. But it’s not wrong to say there are trends and there are plenty of people who ignore each of the forums.

That is just not true. There is no inherent reason why posting movie quotes or posting song lyrics has to be in the Game Room.

Why do you say this, when you’ve repeatedly said the reason why we can’t split the forum (or do a dozen other minor fixes like getting the old emoticons back) is we can’t get Jerry’s time? You’ve already ruled out forum changes by fiat, based upon administrator access. Are you suddenly saying that you could get jerry’s time if it can be shown there’s justification for splitting the forum? If not, you seem to be contradicting what the other moderators (like Marley) are saying in this and every other thread on board issues.

Agreed - no subforums. SenorBeef has not argued for creating subforums.

This is just completely whack. That shows no correlation with any of the concerns that SenorBeef has posted. It is completely disconnected with the entire ongoing discussion. There may be someone somewhere who proposed moving Sports to a separate forum/subforum from everything else, but no one has taken that seriously, and SenorBeef has not made that claim. He has repeatedly discussed the difference between discussion topics and “thread games”, where game is taken loosely to mean things like adding a single word with no meaningful connection to anything previously posted, or posting random song lyrics. Furthermore, SenorBeef has given up on arguing for a new forum. He is proposing moving thread games to a forum where they are a better fit - either in posting style and frequency so they are on a more even footing with the discussions they surround, or splitting the type of “game” to match the topic content of the forum.

This post shows either a level of disregard to not keep straight who is making what suggestions and their arguments, or else a level of disdain for the topic to not actually read the posts to which you are responding. Hell, you apparently haven’t even read this thread’s title. Either way, it is disrespectful to the board members.

Your attitude makes it difficult not to scream.

Was it the consensus of the staff that a new forum is not needed, or just consensus of the staff that since we cannot get a new forum, keeping the games in Game Room and marking the thread games is what we can do?

True, and he does need to calm down. Telling someone to “calm down” rarely works, especially coming from the person who is doing the irritating.

144

I agree Beef. You’re distracting from and undercutting your own arguments and work when you speculate about the Mods discussions and motives.

145

Not ignoring this – just in the midst of a few days where I have outside stuff to do and limited internet access. It may well be Sunday or Monday before I can get back.

146

I can’t say I’m particularly invested in the OP, but I’d thought I’d brainstorm forum names.

For the playing of online text games on this board
Game, Set and Match
Prize competitions, but without the prizes
Gymkhana
Keyboard games
Mind your own keyboard
Fun With Keyboards
Zork
Field day
For discussion of recreational pursuits, including computer games.
Sports and Diversions
Sports and Pastimes
Geeks and Jocks
Geeks vs Jocks
Sports Page

147

Okay, I get what you’re saying.

IIRC, whether or not the game room should be created was a contentious issue with factional split amongst the mods. I don’t know if there’s some leftover resentment there, with some feeling that it’s not a forum that should exist at all, but there clearly seems to antipathy towards the game room. There are those in the administration who seem like they don’t feel that it’s a place of meaningful and worthy discussion.

Otherwise, how could you reach the absurd conclusion that says we can’t move the thread games from the game room to the forum literally titled “mundane pointless things I have to share” because we’re concerned that it won’t meet the level of discourse we require in that forum, and hence those threads will be locked. So those threads don’t belong on the forum dedicated to inane, chatty discussion, but they belong amongst the (generally more weighty) discussion in the game room?

For me to speculate as disparage the moderator’s motivations for this antipathy is making conclusions that I don’t have enough data for, so I’m sorry for my over-reach in that specific regard. But it does seem clear that there is very little respect for the game room as a discussion forum.

You can see why I gave myself some time away from the issue today. I can’t honestly understand where Tuba could possibly be going so very wrong. The topic of discussion was explained to a ridiculous degree. It was no subtle point to be missed. I have no idea how she could possibly get “I want sports to have their own subforum” out of my arguments.

So you can see my frustration. Tuba, as far as I can tell, is more or less the person who has final say in these decisions. They’ll kick it around for mod discussion, and hide behind the idea that everything they do is group consensus as to spread any blame around, but she’s the one who’s going to be the one that says no.

So I’ve come to realize that no matter how well I make my argument, how well-crafted my compromise solutions are, how much the user base of this forum agrees with me - it doesn’t matter. She apparently has decided before any other consideration that it’s a non-problem and no solution will be needed or tried.

But what’s mind boggling about the whole thing is that she’s somehow participating in these threads and yet could not even accurately give a one-sentence summary of what it is we’re discussing. Not even in the right ballpark. So if the person with the ultimate decision has so little regard for the opinion’s of the users that she somehow misses the point that badly, there’s no hope that our voices are being heard.

148

I’m getting annoyed with the damn “game” threads, too. Look at this one. It’s got 22 pages. It says:

That’s all it is. 22 pages of abcdefg. 22 fucking pages. There is a reason the “Monday Morning Post” was rounded up and controlled. I honestly can’t understand why this bullshit post padding is now allowed back. That’s not even the worst offender. Apologies to Zeldar, 'cause I genuinely like the guy, but his "Free Association – Characters, Actors, Celebrities, etc. " has 186 pages. 186! It’s not even a game! It’s 186 pages of people posting whatever pops in to their head.

The heart of the matter is that we need to just plain get rid of the post padding “games”.

149

Alright, so I’d like to revise my proposal, as per the discussion we’ve been having.

  1. Any sort of “Speak to me in song lyrics” or “Monty Python quotes” or “name that movie” or anything like that, where the subject matter is all about the sorts of subjects covered in Café Society should be moved there. And in fact, there already exists a lot of content like that there - there are frequently “Name all movies with a bald villain!” type threads there and they don’t get locked.

  2. Any game threads which are clearly games - they have some sort of structure, or scoring, or objective, or something that actually distinguishes them as a game, so long as they don’t fall under Café Society’s purview should stay in the game room. Examples of this might be Mafia games and play-by-post RPGs.

  3. Things that are just sort of random chatter should go to MPSIMS. Stuff like Free Association, the A-B-C-D type stuff, the stuff that doesn’t really have a solid structure or topic.

  4. Things that would be deemed so inane that they wouldn’t qualify to be left alone in MPSIMS should simply be locked. If it’s too mundane and pointless for MPSIMS, then it doesn’t belong anywhere. Examples for this might be counting threads.

This would dilute the problem greatly so that one forum isn’t being crushed under the load of all of the thread games. Every forum would take a little slice of the thread games. And they’d be better matched by topic. There’s a far greater chance someone from café society might actually decide to participate in a Simpsons quote game than someone who’s in the game room for football or video games.

The free association type games aren’t actually games in any meaningful sense, and are far more reminiscent of MPSIMS style random blabber, and for the same reason, they’re more likely to have cross-pollination in that forum because they’re similar in culture.

Leaving thread games that are actual games in the game room. This should be a more manageable number than the ones that are currently there, and with some of the load taken off, the game room might have a chance to breathe again.

And if we’re concerned that people won’t be able to find all the thread games, I bet someone who plays them will volunteer to keep a thread that lists them all.

This solution doesn’t require us to make new forums, it distributes the moderating load, it matches game threads closer to the content and culture of the forums they’ll occupy, it keeps any one forum from being too choked by these things, and any new users brought into the message boards by the game threads will find themselves more at home in the appropriate forum for them, so it should positively influence retention of new users.

It also gives us the optional opportunity to define what constitutes a game thread, what constitutes “whatever comes into your head” type threads, and what’s considered to be so inane that it isn’t even suitable for MPSIMS and just throw it out. This part isn’t mandatory - just stick the super inane stuff in MPSIMS if you want, but it also potentially lets us tackle that part of the problem.

150

How likely do you think that is going to be, when it’s the mods themselves starting the truly inane ones like you linked to?

And if anyone’s counting, I also avoid the Game Room because of the thread games, and confine my tabletop and computer gaming discussions to other fora now - so that’s at least one poster’s worth of traffic being driven off-board by them (I post probably the same volume on those other fora than I do on here, maybe more)

151

I disagree. Obviously, these threads will create the same problem in MPSIMS, and it isn’t really a low content forum. People often post about very important (for them at least) issues there. Game room content is much lighter.

I’m not in favour of banning these threads, either. If they’re so often on the top, I assume it means many dopers enjoy them. And if some people use them for post padding (not sure what would be the point here, there aren’t even special titles for people with a lot of posts on this board), so what? Not worth inconveniencing people who enjoy these games just because someone wants a highest post count (and I’m not convinced there are many of them. I would guess random answers there rather come from bored dopers).
So, lacking a specific forum, I guess they should stay where they are (and I’m saying that as someone who checks the game room more often than MPSIMS).

152

I have previosuly defended the mods/admins in this thread, and other threads on this topic. I accepted the explanation given that regardless of whether or not it’s a good idea, new forums are off the table because Jerry doesn’t have the time to implement them. But recent posts in this thread seem to be contradicting this a bit.

That said, I would like to see serious consideration given to the proposal in SenorBeef’s last post. I really can’t see the disadvantages with it.

153

Not necessarily. When the posts have zero actual content a very small number of posters can easily keep a large number of threads pinned to the top of a forum.

It really takes minimal effort to shit out one word posts and keep bumping those threads again and again, I would imagine its actually being done by a surprisingly small pool of posters. Why its allowed I really don’t know.

154

I highly disagree. Although I like MPSIMS and post there often, its stated purpose is " mundane and pointless". If we are going to allow stuff like “Let’s count to infinity in pictures”, that’s where it needs to go. A thread like that is not a “game” thread. There’s no game being played. It’s mundane and pointless.

155

The title is “mundane and pointless”. But the actual content is far from being mundane. That’s where people ask advice about their bankruptcy or about the best options for their ailing mother. That’s where they announce the death of a relative or their divorce. Even though I’m not a regular of this forum, it’s obvious it’s the most community-driven of them all, and I’m pretty sure the primary forum for many dopers.
On the other hand, after having read all of this thread, I agree that moving part of the offensive game threads from the Game Room to Cafe Society would make complete sense.

156

I wasn’t making an argument. I was just restating a post of yours that I read in this thread or another of the others you linked. I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I appreciate your passion for the subject and that you’ve taken the time and effort to write these detailed arguments to help people follow along.

I certainly don’t have as much insight into the situation as you do. I’m just trying to follow along.

But IMO, this doesn’t necessarily follow:

Just because the situation has grown into what it is and no other forum wants to take on those threads doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone has very little respect for the game room as a discussion forum.

Forums grow over time and create their own cultures. MPSIMS has its own culture. Cafe Society has its own culture. From what I’ve read in this thread, the game room changed in culture over time to host these thread games that you’re not happy about. That happened organically over time. It wasn’t a mod decision to create that culture. And now those threads don’t fit into the culture of the other forums.

Could the mods change that culture with a technical solution or a rule change? Maybe. But they seem to be saying that they don’t have access to a technical solution and a rule change could interfere with the cultures of other forums. That doesn’t necessarily mean that any mods have bad intentions or are showing very little respect to the discussions currently in the game room.

At this point, I have a suggestion. It’s not snark, judgment, request or demand. It’s just a suggestion. I can see your passion for sports and game discussions. My suggestion is that you put this passion into writing more really interesting threads for the game forum. I know it seems like there’s no competing with threads that don’t require any effort to participate in. But people are drawn to interesting content. You might be surprised at how interesting content can change the culture of a forum. Even if it doesn’t, you would have been discussing something you’re interested in discussing.

I’m not suggesting that you give up the fight. I’m just suggesting that there are several ways to change the culture of a forum.

157

I agree. But see, if a thread is mundane and pointless, that’s where it should go.

158

I have, in fact, been mulling a proposal to restructure The Game Room that’s quite similar to SenorBeef’s latest one. I’ve been beaten to the punch! Needless to say, I support it:

[ul]
[li]Quote threads go into Cafe Society[/li][li]Games with a definite structure, objective, and/or termination condition go into The Game Room. This includes the Death Pool, Mafia, Feuds, Madness, Botticelli, heck, even maybe even Mornington Crescent.[/li][li]Anything else where Dopers essentially post random stuff goes into MPSIMS. There are currently two such threads there already: the “MMP” (a new one every Monday) and the “Pure random silliness thread”.[/li][li]If the thread is too inane even for MPSIMS, then it’s too inane for the SDMB. We gotta have some standards.[/li][/ul]

There are, in fact, rules for The Game Room. Forum rules and FAQ was first posted in 2008 and revised in 2009. A pertinent one is:

So, no, post-padding threads are not supposed to be allowed.

Most importantly, the last paragraph says:

The future is now.

159

The forum description is (bolding mine)

Frivolous chatter and harmless diversions are explicitly included, along with the more weighty subjects.

Compare that with the Game Room description:

Many of those “game” threads, like the one armedmonkey linked to, don’t fit that description at all, but do fit in with frivolous chatter and harmless diversions.

160

Whoa, whoa, whoaaa…

This board has rules?!