# Prosecuting climate change skeptics. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838 "2016-12-29T12:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/1 "2016-12-29T12:02:57Z")
[The California Gathering That Hatched Plan to Prosecute Skeptics of Climate Change](http://dailysignal.com/2016/12/28/the-california-gathering-that-hatched-plan-to-prosecute-skeptics-of-climate-change/) > [@](#): > > Just before joining climate change activist and former Vice President Al Gore for a press conference in New York City, seven state-level attorneys general huddled with a representative of the Union of Concerned Scientists. The political activist, Peter Frumhoff, called for them and other elected officials to move decisively against major corporations and institutions for “denying” climate change. > > The seeds of that call to action in March were planted four years earlier at a gathering of environmental activists, trial lawyers, and academics across the country in San Diego. > > The Daily Signal found this and other revealing bits of information among material produced in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed against Virginia’s George Mason University, home to six academics who urged the Obama administration to prosecute individuals and organizations for not agreeing that man has caused climate change. Yeah, that makes sense, if you can’t persuade them put them in prison. Nothing Nazi about that at all. Seriously, over-reach or what? I know California is the home of the fruitcakes but this one should win a prize for idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/2 "2016-12-29T12:15:20Z")
> **[California to Jail Climate Change Skeptics](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/california-to-jail-climate-change-skeptics/)** > > A California legislative bill didn't seek to jail climate change deniers; it attempted to stop large corporations from spreading misinformation. > [@](#): > > WHAT’S TRUE: California Senate Bill (SB) 1161 sought to make dissemination of scientifically inaccurate or misleading information by businesses and organizations an offense covered by California’s unfair competition law. > > WHAT’S FALSE: The bill did not pass, nor did it propose jail time for anyone denying climate change. Don’t feel bad – I’ve also fallen victim to bullshit news reports in recent weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/3 "2016-12-29T12:25:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [California to Jail Climate Change Skeptics | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/california-to-jail-climate-change-skeptics/) > > Don’t feel bad – I’ve also fallen victim to bullshit news reports in recent weeks. Except it’s not quite bullshit news. Even snopes says it’s partly true. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/4 "2016-12-29T12:28:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > [California to Jail Climate Change Skeptics | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/california-to-jail-climate-change-skeptics/) > > Don’t feel bad – I’ve also fallen victim to bullshit news reports in recent weeks. That doesn’t seem to address the same thing that’s in the OP. The OP is discussing a meeting that was had several years ago where the topic of prosecution was brought up, not a particular bill in the CA legislature. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/5 "2016-12-29T12:29:27Z")
> [@](#): > > With today’s liberal media influence, there are few publications that Americans can rely on to learn the “other” side of the issues. I suppose in this case the “other” side is the side made up of complete nonsense. It’s perhaps worth noting that at no point does the Daily Signal challenge _any_ skeptical view presented therein: > [@](#): > > Contrary to what some environmentalists tell the public, however, skeptics of man-made climate change argue that the analogy between tobacco use and climate change does not hold. > > Theories linking human activity with global warming, they say, are in dispute. I’m sorry, but this is sloppy and dangerous reporting. It’s like reporting on vaccine safety and saying, “Some scientists, however, dispute this claim” - yeah, you _can_ find a tiny handful of discredited cranks who believe that vaccines cause autism or ADHD, but any news organization presenting their opinion in an attempt at even-handedness would rightfully be slagged off as a result. Given how flawed and ridiculous this article is on such a straightforward scientific matter, I would hope you would not continue to get your news from this website - if it can’t be trusted to report on the absolutely straightforward, clear-cut matter of the international scientific consensus on climate change (instead throwing up a partisan smokescreen in line with its own political philosophy), how in the world could you expect it to cover other, less clear-cut political issues with any degree of honesty or integrity? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/6 "2016-12-29T13:27:29Z")
Activists pushed to include calls for investigation (and potential prosecution) of companies supposedly engaging in climate change denial in the Democratic Party platform. On the other hand, we’ve had at last one Republican leader calling for an investigation of scientists supporting the idea of climate change (i.e. an e-mail sweep to divulge thoughtcrimes or whatever). Misusing the law to punish those who deviate from one’s preferred point of view on scientific issues has also occurred or been threatened in the case of GMO/biotech science and vaccination. If this hostile climate (sorry) continues and worsens, pretty soon aspiring scientists will shy away from “controversial” topics in favor of research into making puppies’ coats glossier. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/7 "2016-12-29T16:53:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > … scientists will shy away from “controversial” topics in favor of research into making puppies’ coats glossier. The DeVil Foundation is on it! ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/8 "2016-12-29T17:16:31Z")
“The Daily Signal” seems like a new one. It claims to be a news source from the the Heritage Institute and one of their lead stories is simply describing themselves. I don’t know where they’re getting the story on the UCS. Peter Frumhoff seems to have said “Deception/disinformation isn’t itself a basis for criminal prosecution under RICO” but that was back in May 2016 and that was about another leaked email. Right now, I need to add “The Daily Signal” to my list of fake news sites. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/9 "2016-12-29T17:25:41Z")
Might have been a bit skeptical if it weren’t for the fact that its the _Daily Signal_, who’s reputation for strict candor and non=partisan truthiness is…wait a tick, who the Hell is the _Daily Signal_? Oh, wait, a quote! > [@](#): > > …Such details obtained through the lawsuit “reveal the incestuous relationship between climate change activists and partisan state attorneys general,” Hans von Spakovsky, a senior legal fellow at The Heritage Foundation, told The Daily Signal. He added:… Would that be the same fellow that rips the mask off the growing threat of voter fraud in America? The guy who insisted that Justice Scalia’s “vote” should be counted from the grave? But wait, there’s more! > [@](#): > > …The Union of Concerned Scientists played a critical role in organizing the 2012 meeting, notes Ron Arnold, executive vice president of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, a conservative educational group. > > “The Union of Concerned Scientists has a long history of left-wing activism,” Arnold said in an interview with The Daily Signal. “It was informally founded but not incorporated in 1969 as an anti-Vietnam War protest group by students and faculty members at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.”… I will trust the Gentle Reader’s capacity to decide if the Union of Concerned Scientists are “left-wing activists” or no. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/10 "2016-12-29T17:40:51Z")
“We’re gonna make fraud _extra special super-duper_ illegal!” Yawn… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/11 "2016-12-29T17:49:29Z")
> [@pmwgreen](#): > > “The Daily Signal” seems like a new one. It claims to be a news source from the the Heritage Institute and one of their lead stories is simply describing themselves. I don’t know where they’re getting the story on the UCS. Peter Frumhoff seems to have said “Deception/disinformation isn’t itself a basis for criminal prosecution under RICO” but that was back in May 2016 and that was about another leaked email. > > Right now, I need to add “The Daily Signal” to my list of fake news sites. Indeed: > [@](#): > > Such details obtained through the lawsuit “reveal the incestuous relationship between climate change activists and partisan state attorneys general,” Hans von Spakovsky, a senior legal fellow at The Heritage Foundation So, people that are concerned about the environment are in an “incestuous relationship”, with some governments. As if to say that if the people can indeed move the government to do what the people think is important to be an evil thing. But on top of that this issue did not led to much of anything, but as a demonstration of how fake news works is a very important one. On another thread a science writer that looked at how the new media is how many times it shows how irresponsible it is: The sources never bother to put updates or corrections and so we get people that think nothing has changed and then they copy and paste the spin that is not really true anymore. Accuracy is not important for those sources, what is important for those sources is to continue fooling their readers and followers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/12 "2016-12-29T18:05:10Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Except it’s not quite bullshit news. Even snopes says it’s partly true. Looking at history I have to say it is bullshit, the example many are following is to prosecute the corporations that are funding FUD and corrupting our politicians. If you don’t know the precedent you are ignoring the decades long fight to get the Tobacco companies to admit that their product killed people and to make them stop their deceptive propaganda. The only problem in the end for the Tobacco companies was that they were forced to support information campaigns against tobacco and settlements that fund a lot of the Medicare costs their product causes to the states. What the propaganda makers are not letting you know is that historically speaking nobody gets sent to prison, only that the fake and lying propaganda (and there is no other way to describe what has been going on in this issue) also has to lie even about what would happen to the distributors of fake news (really nothing, but just losing their revenue coming from organizations funded by members of the fossil fuel industry) and to lie also about what would happen to the ones making the fake news or the ones putting the money to continue to deceive (No jail time, mostly they will be only forced to acknowledge the science and to pay to counter a bit of the effects of their product) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prosecuting-climate-change-skeptics-really/775838/13 "2016-12-29T18:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=The Daily Signal] …Such details obtained through the lawsuit “reveal the incestuous relationship between climate change activists and partisan state attorneys general,” Hans von Spakovsky, a senior legal fellow at The Heritage Foundation, told The Daily Signal. He added:… [/QUOTE] Yeah, there’s quite the incestuous relationship going on there – state attorneys general and climate scientists conspiring together to suppress the truth about the climate change “hoax”! 😃 For instance … **Virginia court rejects sceptic’s bid for climate science emails** \*Campaign by attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, to gain access to Michael Mann’s material, is dismissed by state supreme court \* The two-year legal pursuit of the climate scientist, Michael Mann, by Virginia’s climate-sceptic attorney general ran into a dead end at the state supreme court on Friday. The court rejected Ken Cuccinelli’s demand for Mann’s email, research notes, and even handwritten memos from his time at the University of Virginia, ruling that the official did not have the legal authority to demand such records. The decision was seen as a victory for academic freedom, and a personal embarrassment for Cuccinelli, who had hoped to use his high-profile campaign against the climate scientist to raise his political profile ahead of a run for governorship. Cuccinelli, who dismisses the existence of climate change, has spent two years pursuing Mann through the courts … > **[Virginia court rejects sceptic's bid for climate science emails](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/mar/02/virginia-court-sceptic-access-climate-emails)** > > Campaign by attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, to gain access to Michael Mann's material, is dismissed by state supreme court Obviously the “Daily Signal” is yet another disreputable right-wing rag pushing fake news (in this case well defined as “the opposite of the truth”) and wasting Internet bandwidth to misinform people.