# Protecting captured US troops **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887 "2007-05-13T01:38:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/21 "2007-05-13T23:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] Who would you rather be captured by - the United States or one of the terrorist groups currently operating in Iraq? [/QUOTE] Well the terrorist groups would probally kill me sooner, while the US would prolonge my misery. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/22 "2007-05-13T23:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Mysteriously, the modern Major General is silent on how the soldiers should be treated in captivity. [/QUOTE] Why should he say anything about that? It’s not his call and the captors won’t care what he says. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/23 "2007-05-13T23:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] Who would you rather be captured by - the United States or one of the terrorist groups currently operating in Iraq? [/QUOTE] The “terrorists”. Better odds that they’ll just kill me, and I might even be able to shame them into not torturing me because “that would make you no better than America”. For that matter, they might even might let me go unharmed since I’m no threat to them, and that would let them score propaganda points for being more civilized than America, like Iran did. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/24 "2007-05-14T00:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] It sound like it to me, too. What did you mean? [/QUOTE] I never said that just because we were better than Al Qaeda that made everything alright. It certainly doesn’t make what we do right. I just think that there’s a fundamental difference between [groups that will have an 11 or 12 year old boy behead a spy](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21621200-2,00.html) and those who waterboard. I think it’s dishonest to equivocate the two. Unless we have torture techniques and there are instances of torture I am unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/25 "2007-05-14T00:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] The “terrorists”. Better odds that they’ll just kill me, and I might even be able to shame them into not torturing me because “that would make you no better than America”. For that matter, they might even might let me go unharmed since I’m no threat to them, and that would let them score propaganda points for being more civilized than America, like Iran did. [/QUOTE] Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/26 "2007-05-14T00:35:52Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] I never said that just because we were better than Al Qaeda that made everything alright. It certainly doesn’t make what we do right. I just think that there’s a fundamental difference between [groups that will have an 11 or 12 year old boy behead a spy](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21621200-2,00.html) and those who waterboard. I think it’s dishonest to equivocate the two. [/quote] You are right; the waterboarders are clearly morally inferior. Torture is far more evil than killing. [QUOTE=dgrdfd] Unless we have torture techniques and there are instances of torture I am unaware of. [/QUOTE] Really ? You have no problem torturing people to death, or until they go insane ? With setting dogs on them, or raping their children in front of them ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/27 "2007-05-14T00:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Really ? You have no problem torturing people to death, or until they go insane ? With setting dogs on them, or raping their children in front of them ? [/QUOTE] I’d like to see a cite for that last bit. (Soldiers of any army in the field might do that when no officer is watching, but I would distinguish that kind of incident from what happened at Abu Ghraib, which appears to have been an actual matter of policy.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/28 "2007-05-14T01:06:34Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’d like to see a cite for that last bit. (Soldiers of any army in the field might do that when no officer is watching, but I would distinguish that kind of incident from what happened at Abu Ghraib, which appears to have been an actual matter of policy.) [/QUOTE] It was one of the things Seymour Hersh dug up; and was part of the videos/pictures that were suppressed, as you may have heard of. Here’s a mention; it’s from an obviously partisan site of some sort I found by googling, but CNN and such try to avoid covering such stories. [Link](http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14864) > [@](#): > > NEW YORK A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America’s image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of “rape and murder” and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were “blatantly sadistic.” > > \< snip \> > > “Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with\*\* young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has.\*\* They are in total terror it’s going to come out.” ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/29 "2007-05-14T08:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] Who would you rather be captured by - the United States or one of the terrorist groups currently operating in Iraq? [/QUOTE] What makes you think they’ve been captured by terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/30 "2007-05-14T08:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] What makes you think they’ve been captured by terrorists? [/QUOTE] Don’t you know ? Anyone who fights against us is a terrorist. They couldn’t **possibly** be, say, a resistance guerilla force. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/31 "2007-05-14T16:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] What makes you think they’ve been captured by terrorists? [/QUOTE] An al-Qaeda group has [warned the U.S. to stop looking for them.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/14/AR2007051400174.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/32 "2007-05-14T16:32:51Z")
I’d rather you behead me on the spot then keep me for years, uncharged, in a prison camp. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/33 "2007-05-14T17:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I’d rather you behead me on the spot then keep me for years, uncharged, in a prison camp. [/QUOTE] Why? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/34 "2007-05-14T17:19:39Z")
I’d rather be dead then spend years in a POW camp, especially one with govt. approved torture. I also think its more humane. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/35 "2007-05-14T17:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I’d rather be dead then spend years in a POW camp, especially one with govt. approved torture. [/quote] Well, that’s just a restatement of the assertion, and doesn’t explain anything. You do realize that most of those interred at Gitmo have been released (or are awaiting release), don’t you? > [@](#): > > I also think its more humane. YMMV. My mileage does vary. I’ve never approved of the detention center at Gitmo but pretending that being beheaded is more “humane” than what is going on at Gitmo is a really lame attempt at “proving” how bad it is there. \*Really \*lame. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/36 "2007-05-14T17:29:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] My guess is they’re being held for hostage value, not information value. [/QUOTE] My guess is these guys are going to die. A dramatic news piece is more valuable to them than anything they can wrangle using hostages as a bargaining chip. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/37 "2007-05-14T17:32:44Z")
Me personally, I would rather be dead then spend four years in a regular US prison with assurances I will not be tortured by the employees and will be released on a given date. Not knowing when/if torture is coming, if/when I will be released, if ever, in the US POW prisons I have read about, yes, I’d rather you kill me on the spot than torture me for a few years, then maybe let me go. Many torture victims brains turn to mush, so being a mental case after released, yes, I’d rather you behead me on the spot. Again, my opinion, you or others here may be able to do a four year stretch in a US POW camp with no problem. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/38 "2007-05-14T17:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] You do realize that most of those interred at Gitmo have been released (or are awaiting release), don’t you? [/QUOTE] No. I’ve heard many have been released, but not “most.” Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/39 "2007-05-14T17:42:32Z")
At least [385](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0705130389may14,1,2703033.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed) not released, and being denied representation ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887/40 "2007-05-14T19:18:26Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No. I’ve heard many have been released, but not “most.” Cite? [/QUOTE] I got it from the Gitmo article in wikipedia. Something like 300+ have been released, 400+ still there, and about 100 awaiting release (I assume many of these are the ones that no country will take). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protecting-captured-us-troops/403887.md?page=3)