# Protesters storm US embasy...in Cairo?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420 "2012-09-11T18:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/41 "2012-09-12T04:04:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m wondering why the outrage hasn’t spread outside Egypt and Libya. Sure, the originators of the film seem to be Egyptian Christians, but why does that matter to non-Egyptians? Probably for the same reason that Muslims didn’t go crazy over the South Park episodes mocking the controversy over the Muhammad cartoons. People in those countries probably aren’t aware and don’t care. Remember, the Muhammad cartoons when first published caused no controversy or violence. It wasn’t until months later, when a few Imams traveled abroad and started waving around their own doctored versions of the cartoons(which were vastly more offensive than the originals) and caused the riots. Frankly, had most Muslims seen the original cartoons, it’s doubtful they’d have found more than one or two offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/42 "2012-09-12T04:10:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s rather exceptional, but yes, a Catholic fundie can potentially be as dangerous as a Muslim one. > > The difference is that those protestors don’t get much traction or support from the general public. My seminal point wasn’t really that ours are more or less or as dangerous/violent, TBH - just that they get incensed at the \*exact \*same kind of silly stuff and get just as obnoxiously nutters over it, so pointing and laughing (or demonizing) isn’t really called for. The details are trivial and pointless ; the reasons, as always, purely human ones. [del]War[/del]Fundies… fundies never change. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/43 "2012-09-12T06:44:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m wondering why the outrage hasn’t spread outside Egypt and Libya. Sure, the originators of the film seem to be Egyptian Christians, but why does that matter to non-Egyptians? [Libya: U.S. staffer dies in attack on consulate](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012/09/11/libya-us-staffer-dies-in-attack-on-consulate/57752828/1) - that was much faster than I had anticipated, since with the Muhammed Cartoon riots it took some outside rabble rousers to move the population to riots. Also because the previous regimes in places like Egypt and Syria kindled and used the rage during the Muhammed Cartoon Crises to deflect the energy of the mob away from attacking the regimes (how did that work for you Assad/Mubarrak?), but there doesn’t seem to be any such underlying political need to manipulate the mob at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/44 "2012-09-12T07:08:49Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Beyond that, does anyone think for two seconds that If I walked down to Ground Zero, set an American flag on fire and started chanting over and over “Allahu Akbar” that barring police interference that such behavior wouldn’t potentially provoke violence. Not a good analogy. A better one would be someone thousands of miles from the U.S. setting the flag on fire and shouting “Allahu Akbar.” If some Iranian posted a youtube video of him wiping the American flag with his ass and lighting it on fire while making fun of Jesus I doubt you’d see anyone here swamp an embassy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/45 "2012-09-12T07:13:45Z")
The weird thing about the attack is that it took place almost exactly one year after a [much worse attack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_attack_on_the_Israeli_Embassy_in_Egypt) on the Israeli embassy in Cairo. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/46 "2012-09-12T07:19:08Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW, the “correct” response would be for the outraged religious dolts to make their own piece of crap video lampooning the shit out of Jesus & his followers. Hell, it’d take what? A couple of hours and a $300 minicam. > > Voila! Revenge. > > Imbeciles, the lot of them. With all due respect, if you’re going to start accusing them of being “imbeciles” you might want to learn about their beliefs. Anyone who thinks it would be the “correct” response for Muslims, whether militant, conservative, or progressive to start “lampooning the shit out of Jesus & his followers” knows nothing of Islam. Jesus(Issa in Arabic) is revered amongst Muslims as the Messiah who upon the Day of Judgement shall return to battle and defeat the anti-Christ so ridiculing him would be utterly moronic. Moreover, Muslims are commanded to protect and respect Christians unless they act aggressively towards Muslims, though obviously far too many ignore Muhammad’s commands in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/47 "2012-09-12T07:22:03Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Not a good analogy. A better one would be someone thousands of miles from the U.S. setting the flag on fire and shouting “Allahu Akbar.” If some Iranian posted a youtube video of him wiping the American flag with his ass and lighting it on fire while making fun of Jesus I doubt you’d see anyone here swamp an embassy. If Americans had for several decades been forced to suffer under a dictator propped up by Iran and seen various different American countries invaded, conquered and oppressed by Iran I suspect you might very well see something like that. That said, at least thanks for conceding that Americans are also likely to overreact to people desecrating symbols, like the flag that they revere. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/48 "2012-09-12T07:24:37Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > but yes, a Catholic fundie can potentially be as dangerous as a Muslim one. > The difference is that those protestors don’t get much traction or support from the general public. A lot of people in Northern Ireland would disagree with that and the cemeteries there are filled with people who would disagree if they were still able to. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocsJO1sj2GM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocsJO1sj2GM) ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/49 "2012-09-12T07:30:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The weird thing about the attack is that it took place almost exactly one year after a [much worse attack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_attack_on_the_Israeli_Embassy_in_Egypt) on the Israeli embassy in Cairo. The whole thing is great fun (except for the American guy killed in Libya). Islamic football hooligans wearing V for Vendatta Guy Fawkes masks ([Guy Fawkes](http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2012/09/APTOPIX-Mideast-Egypt_Horo1-635x357.jpg)) rioting over a lousy two-bit homemade movie that hasn’t even been released yet, but whose director is variously mistaken for a Dutch guy or for another guy who has the same name as the Monty Python guy that was part of the team that made Life of Brian. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/50 "2012-09-12T08:20:00Z")
Apparently the man killed in Libya was named Sean Smith; an IT services guy, a SomethingAwful mod and a serious Eve Online player under the name Vile Rat; there’s a guy talking about him [here](http://themittani.com/news/rip-vile-rat). ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/51 "2012-09-12T09:31:14Z")
According to France24 four Americans were killed at the Libyan embassy. The ambassador Jay Christopher Steven and three other staff members. Maybe it is just a rumor because none of the big American news media seems to be reporting it. Here’s one account: [REPORTS: US Ambassador To Libya And Three Others Killed In Attack On Consulate](http://www.businessinsider.com/reports-us-ambassador-to-libya-has-been-killed-in-consulate-attack-2012-9) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/52 "2012-09-12T09:32:05Z")
Reuters is now [reporting](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/12/us-libya-usa-attack-idUSBRE88B0EI20120912)that the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three staff members are dead in a rocket attack. Damn… ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/53 "2012-09-12T09:46:18Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > None in Cairo thus far, [but they have been in Libya](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692). Turns out the “official” was our Ambassador to Libya. Lovely. ETA: oops, didn’t refresh ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/54 "2012-09-12T10:02:39Z")
That’s pretty extreme. He died of suffocation. Can’t remember another ambassador from any nation being killed on duty. In addition Benghazi where he was killed was the center of the revolt against Gadaffi wherein the same ambassador played a part. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/55 "2012-09-12T10:41:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > With all due respect, if you’re going to start accusing them of being “imbeciles” you might want to learn about their beliefs. No thanks. Why would I want to learn anything from brainwashed imbeciles? And I do mean what I wrote: > [@RedFury](#): > > …Imbeciles, **the lot of them**. - bolding mine. Meaning _both sides_. Plenty of stupid going on when you have ‘Christians’ on one end wasting $5 million dollars on a troll ‘film’ trashing Muslims, and the latter taking the bait, and running with it till people get killed. Is that what these people get from their Holy Books? I’ll pass. > [@](#): > > Anyone who thinks it would be the “correct” response for Muslims, whether militant, conservative, or progressive to start “lampooning the shit out of Jesus & his followers” knows nothing of Islam. Again, know enough to know that it’s little more than “my god/books/beliefs are better than yours” & people die fighting over that gigantic hogwash. And sure, I obviously still think my idea would have been much better that what is currently happening. Actually, so should you. > [@](#): > > Jesus(Issa in Arabic) is revered amongst Muslims as the Messiah who upon the Day of Judgement shall return to battle and defeat the anti-Christ so ridiculing him would be utterly moronic. That’s [Javier Solana](http://deltaflt1189.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/exposed-javier-solana-the-possible-antichrist/), correct? The anti-Christ, I mean. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Moreover, Muslims are commanded to protect and respect Christians unless they act aggressively towards Muslims, though obviously far too many ignore Muhammad’s commands in this regard. And Christian wackos have gone ape-shit a plenty throughout the centuries. Still do actually. Remember a certain Bush going on a [Crusade](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_70Kbdpow)? Some carnage that was…and still is. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/56 "2012-09-12T12:27:07Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > quoting Huffington Post: > > > [@](#): > > > > Sam Bacile, an American citizen who said he produced, directed and wrote the two-hour film, said he had not anticipated such a furious reaction. Is Sam’s middle name “Im”? I’m assuming the characterizations of the film are reasonable, which remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/57 "2012-09-12T12:31:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Certainly in Northern Ireland one of the common chants that provoked violence was “the Pope’s a queer!” and anyone caught trying to spray paint such a slogan in the wrong neighborhood would wind up having both their kneecaps shot out and then have a bullet put in the back of their head. I don’t think that was a common chant in Northern Ireland during the troubles. The one I always heard was “Fuck The Pope”. I also doubt anyone ever went into the wrong neighbourhood to spray such a slogan on a wall. They’d spray it on the walls in their neighbourhood where such a sentiment would have a lot of support. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/58 "2012-09-12T12:35:46Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Is Sam’s middle name “Im”? > > I’m assuming the characterizations of the film are reasonable, which remains to be seen. I figure it’s the standard demagogue routine; whip up the extremists either by preaching at them (if they are on your side), or by deliberately provoking them (if they are on the other side); then when some predictably cross the line into violence cry crocodile tears and pretend that that wasn’t what you were going for all along. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/59 "2012-09-12T12:37:28Z")
Do people realize what is going on? Basically, any film, cartoon, or writing (that is felt to be offensive to Islam) is liable to provoke riots and the murders of innocent people. My question: if Obama makes light of this, will his action be interpreted as a “green light” for future outrages? If he acts tough, and demands official apologies, reparations, compensation, etc., will that also be inflammatory? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/60 "2012-09-12T12:49:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Do people realize what is going on? Basically, any film, cartoon, or writing (that is felt to be offensive to Islam) is liable to provoke riots and the murders of innocent people. Well, I can’t speak authoritatively for “people” in general, but yes, I think that for at least the past thirty years (since the Rushdie _fatwa_ or thereabouts), very many people have been aware that many Islamist extremists are willing to respond with violence to any public expression that they consider blasphemous or anti-Islam. > [@ralph124c](#): > > My question: if Obama makes light of this, will his action be interpreted as a “green light” for future outrages? If he acts tough, and demands official apologies, reparations, compensation, etc., will that also be inflammatory? My question: From whom are you suggesting that Obama might demand “official apologies”? Are you under the impression that the attacks were endorsed or condoned by the Libyan government? On the contrary: the Libyan security forces fought the Salafist attackers, and President Magariaf has officially pledged his government’s full cooperation with US efforts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420.md?page=4)