# Protesters storm US embasy...in Cairo?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420 "2012-09-11T18:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/81 "2012-09-12T17:03:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > $1.2 billion, and it’s not to buy love. It’s to get them to recognize the State of Israel. Hey, I can recognise it. [There it is right there](http://images.yourdictionary.com/images/main/A4israel.jpg). I’m pretty sure [this is it too](http://www.flickr.com/photos/canonsnapper/7620876778/). Where’s my $1.2 billion, you tightwads? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/82 "2012-09-12T17:04:18Z")
[Eddie Izzard] Do you have a flag? [/EI] ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/83 "2012-09-12T17:05:12Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Hey, I can recognise it. [There it is right there](http://images.yourdictionary.com/images/main/A4israel.jpg). I’m pretty sure [this is it too](http://www.flickr.com/photos/canonsnapper/7620876778/). Where’s my $1.2 billion, you tightwads? \ Do you have a flag ? If you don’t have a flag it doesn’t count. \ ETA: Oh dagnabbit. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/84 "2012-09-12T17:08:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > …My question: From whom are you suggesting that Obama might demand “official apologies”? Are you under the impression that the attacks were endorsed or condoned by the Libyan government? [Maybe.](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/12/CBS-Reports-Libyan-Security-Forces-Showed-Militants-Where-to-Attack-Our-Ambassador) (Yeah, it’s Breitbart. Address the substance of the cited post.) Assuming it’s not a good PhotoShop job, that poor bastard being dragged through the street sure looks a lot like [this guy](http://abcnewsradioonline.com/storage/news-images/GETTY_W_091212_ChrisStevens.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1347448381719), doesn’t he? Even assuming the guy was Ambassador Stevens, this doesn’t also mean the Libyan security forces were complicit in the assault. But if they were, then the Libyan government—such as it is—better do a whole lot more to apologize than, “Whoops, it was a mob; sorry we can’t find them.” Killing an ambassador and invading their embassy are classical ‘act of war’ actions. I wouldn’t personally rule out an invasion if the Libyan government substantively told the U.S. to bugger off. I hope your boy comes home safe, **pinkyvee**. And I hope that the thugs who did this are brought to justice. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/85 "2012-09-12T17:10:12Z")
I just noticed [somebody we all remember](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_(pastor)) was involved in promoting the film: > [@](#): > > The video gained international attention with its promotion by controversial Florida-based Christian Pastor Terry Jones, who said Tuesday the film was not designed to attack Muslims but to show the “destructive ideology of Islam.” > [@Kobal2](#): > > [ETA: Oh dagnabbit. Bwahaha! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/86 "2012-09-12T17:14:42Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I wouldn’t personally rule out an invasion if the Libyan government substantively told the U.S. to bugger off. I would, and it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/87 "2012-09-12T17:28:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I would, and it hasn’t. It’s a little early to say #2. Easiest thing in the world to issue a statement “deploring this terrible act”. Another thing entirely to help find the members of the mob (especially the ones toting RPGs) and help apprehend them. Or kill them; I’m not choosy, provided they get the people who were responsible. Still it’s a little early for determining even what happened—other than that we have a dead ambassador on our hands—never mind what remains to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/88 "2012-09-12T17:33:38Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > It’s a little early to say #2. Fair enough, yes. There’s a lot to sort out here and it just happened. But I think an actual fuck-you seems unlikely and I don’t think there’s any reason to expect one at based on the response so far. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/89 "2012-09-12T17:37:37Z")
There is now speculation that the riots were ginned up by al Qaeda or sympathizers so they could use it as cover for the attack on the embassy staff. The film was used as an excuse to get the cover of disorder when the real purpose was revenge for a drone strike that killed a militant in Pakistan in June. > [@](#): > > Mathieu Guidere, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of Toulouse in France and an expert on Islamist radicals, said information from militant Web sites suggested that Libyan extremists seized on the film to rally people around an attack on the consulate. He said the attack appeared to be motivated by a recent call by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda leader, to avenge the killing of Hassan Mohammed Qaed, better known as Abu Yahya al-Libi, a Libyan-born cleric who was a key aide to Osama bin Laden. > > Quillam, a respected British think-tank that monitors extremist groups, said its sources in Libya and elsewhere in the region described the attack as a well-planned assault that occurred in two waves and was organized by a group of about 20 militants. The first wave involved driving the Americans from the consulate, and the second was a coordinated attack using a rocket-propelled grenade after they were taken to another location. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/news-agencies-us-ambassador-to-libya-killed-in-attack-outside-consulate/2012/09/12/665de5fc-fcc4-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9\_print.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/news-agencies-us-ambassador-to-libya-killed-in-attack-outside-consulate/2012/09/12/665de5fc-fcc4-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9_print.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/90 "2012-09-12T17:38:45Z")
I saw commentary about that elsewhere, and it seems credible to me. I think the Koran-burning riots in Afghanistan worked in a similar way. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/91 "2012-09-12T18:22:30Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well excuuuuse me for thinking this thread was devoted to the particular kind of Muslim imbecile that does this kind of thing…and the equally stupid Christian fundies that troll them. I mean, $5 million bucks is best spent on ridiculing other fundies as opposed to hmmm…say, feeding the poor? :smack: Unless the film-maker is performing a giant sectarian hoax on everyone, it’s not Christian fundies that made or funded the film. [It’s 101 Jewish fundies](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/12/161003427/what-we-know-about-sam-bacile-the-man-behind-the-muhammad-movie). Christian fundies just helped popularize it. Admittedly, after reading the article I smelled fish. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/92 "2012-09-12T18:23:34Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > Best of luck to you and your boy. Be proud. > Ours is a combat medic. After 9/11 he announced he was determined to be a “fireman” and save lives. As parents, sometimes think this sort of childhood announcement doesn’t mean much. Well, I was wrong. He was/is determined to save lives… You certainly have a son to be proud of – he’ll be out there saving lives. Mine’s in Engineering and Scientific Research. And yes, proud of the Big Nerd as well. Take good care and hard as I am sure it is, do try to relax. Worrying, though natural, really doesn’t solve anything – quite the contrary. > [@theR](#): > > There is now speculation that the riots were ginned up by al Qaeda or sympathizers so they could use it as cover for the attack on the embassy staff. The film was used as an excuse to get the cover of disorder when the real purpose was revenge for a drone strike that killed a militant in Pakistan in June. [MSNBC](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/12/13824089-us-ambassador-3-others-killed-in-attacks-on-libya-mission?lite) has all but confirmed that al-Qaeda played a part. After all, how do you find RPGs at a “protest”? > [@](#): > > Al-Qaeda statements and posts on militant Islamist forums appeared to support the contention that the attack was about more than just the movie. > > In his annual statement on the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the U.S., Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri called Tuesday for Islamists to seek revenge for al-Liby’s killing. > > Militants, meanwhile, were celebrating the attack in online postings as “revenge” for the killing of al-Liby, said Evan Kohlmann, an Middle East and terrorism analyst for NBC News. U.S. officials told NBC News that they couldn’t rule out that possibility… Anyone surprised? I mean, _really_? Sadly, I think that what the US is doing in Syria may backfire a hundred times worse than what was predictable in post-Gadhafi Libya. Oh, and BTW? Al Jazeera is reporting that [**The two-hour movie, "Innocence of Muslims’', cost $5m to make and was financed with the help of more than 100 Jewish donors, said Bacile.**](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html)\* Nice. We’ve got fundie kooks of all kinds involved. ETA: \*beaten to the punch. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/93 "2012-09-12T18:52:41Z")
The news/rumors keep coming in fast and furious. Now this: [**Muhammad Film Consultant: ‘Sam Bacile’ is Not Israeli, and Not a Real Name**](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/muhammad-film-consultant-sam-bacile-is-not-israeli-and-not-a-real-name/262290/) > [@](#): > > As part of my search for more information about Sam Bacile, the alleged producer of the now-infamous anti-Muhammad film trailer “The Innocence of Muslims,” I just called a man named Steve Klein – a self-described militant Christian activist in Riverside, California (whose actual business, he said, is in selling “hard-to-place home insurance”), who has been described in multiple media accounts as a consultant to the film. > > \ > > He said the man who identified himself as Bacile asked him to help make the anti-Muhammad film. When I asked him to describe Bacile, he said: “I don’t know that much about him. I met him, I spoke to him for an hour. He’s not Israeli, no. I can tell you this for sure, the State of Israel is not involved, Terry Jones (the radical Christian Quran-burning pastor) is not involved. His name is a pseudonym. All these Middle Eastern folks I work with have pseudonyms. I doubt he’s Jewish. I would suspect this is a disinformation campaign.” Time to take everything with a huge grain of salt. Surely much more to come. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/94 "2012-09-12T18:58:08Z")
As I stated in MPSIMS, my husband just finished his final rotation in Libya Saturday. He’s safety in the US now. He just got off chat with someone there(my husband was in the desert at oil fields) the guy still there said there was an “incident” and everything was shut down. There are a lot of rumours going around with the cause of the attack, whether it was the film or someone to drive a wedge between the US and Libya. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/95 "2012-09-12T19:12:29Z")
> [@theR](#): > > There is now speculation that the riots were ginned up by al Qaeda or sympathizers so they could use it as cover for the attack on the embassy staff. The film was used as an excuse to get the cover of disorder when the real purpose was revenge for a drone strike that killed a militant in Pakistan in June. What’s the point of a revenge attack if you cover it up so the people you are attacking don’t know its a revenge attack? And if the riot in Libya was to cover an attack, what was the one in Egypt for? To cover-up some vandalism to the Embassy flag? I’m pretty sceptical in general of the various conspiracy theories. Muslim extremists have a history of taking anger at Western anti-Muslim media out on the US gov’t, there’s a lot of Muslim extremeists in Libya and this soon after the Civil war, I imagine a lot of them have RPGs lying around. I don’t really see the need to invoke shadowy plots. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/96 "2012-09-12T19:17:13Z")
The issue isn’t can’t be compared to writing things about the pope in the wrong neighborhood. More accurate would be if someone wrote those things (or god forbid, drew a cartoon!) in their own neighborhood - in their own country. Would anyone, anywhere in the world, attack that county’s consulate? These extremists only succeed in turning more and more people against all Muslims. Maybe that’s their goal. BTW- I watched the trailer on YouTube - really poor stuff. Nearly unwatchable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/97 "2012-09-12T19:20:44Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Oh, and BTW? Al Jazeera is reporting that [**The two-hour movie, "Innocence of Muslims’', cost $5m to make and was financed with the help of more than 100 Jewish donors, said Bacile.**](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html)\*. Red, I know you have issues with me and a really odd hang-up regarding Zionism(note Zionism not Jews) but you might want to read your link before smearing Al-Jazeera with promoting anti-Semitic claptrap. Your link reports credible claims that Bacile was neither Israeli nor Jewish, but actually an American Christian and the guy behind the movie was a Coptic Chrustian from Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/98 "2012-09-12T19:24:49Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > What’s the point of a revenge attack if you cover it up so the people you are attacking don’t know its a revenge attack? The larger protest was physical cover that allowed the killers to get close to the embassy and then get to the people they wanted to kill. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/99 "2012-09-12T19:35:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’ve never been there, but stop me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the police regularly regulate marchs during “the marching season” because of fears that specific slogans, signs or marchs would provoke violence? They still do. A march down your street with loud instruments, martial drums, and sectarian songs, by an organisation whose \*raison d’etre \*is the domination of your group is of course going to raise hackles. This is different though to seeing a graffito on a wall that says “The Queen sucks cocks” and going out and killing someone over it. Marches in lots of countries are regulated to prevent violent confrontations. In England, the EDL’s marches typically spark counter-marches of anti-fascist protestors and the police have to get in between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420/100 "2012-09-12T19:36:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The larger protest was physical cover that allowed the killers to get close to the embassy and then get to the people they wanted to kill. The protest itself seems to have been triggered by the one in Egypt, which in turn was triggered by reporting there that Florida Evangelical Terry Jones was going to screen the anti-Muslim film on that day. Unless Terry Jones is an Al-Qaeda operative, the protest wasn’t pre-planned by anyone in Libya. Which isn’t to say that some group may have taken advantage of the protest to launch an attack, but I don’t see how it could’ve been a pre-planned revenge attack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protesters-storm-us-embasy-in-cairo/634420.md?page=6)