# Protests in Canada shut down US Consulate in Toronto and maybe Embassy in Ottawa **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 30, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593 "2017-01-30T16:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/41 "2017-02-01T05:00:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You and I have very different beliefs in what is or is not a good example. Quite simply, your _facts_ are no more than _alternative facts_, with all that phrase connotes, and the conclusions that you derive from your _alternate facts_ are entirely unsupported. \ _Muffin walks away from thread._ Wow! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/42 "2017-02-01T05:50:19Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Seems rather silly; it’s not local consuls or ambassadors who are responsible for the dumb things US presidents do. And I include all presidents since at least Nixon. This. Protests often target the wrong folks. Like the Black Lives Matter activists who prevented Bernie Sanders from speaking. Without a doubt the US consulates in Canada are far more liberal than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/43 "2017-02-01T06:42:41Z")
I live in DC and when a nation takes an action that people find deplorable, it is quite common for there to be a protest in front of their embassy. During Apartheid, there were regular protests in front of the South African embassy. Were there people in the embassy who might have been opposed to Apartheid? Maybe, but protesting in front of a nation’s embassy is a way for people in other countries to register their disdain for actions they find reprehensible. I think America should be getting used to this, we’re on a course to make ourselves pariahs and this kind of protest will become common. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/44 "2017-02-01T07:38:58Z")
One of the purposes of protesting the USA embassy and consulates in Canada is to to show our Members of Parliament, including our Prime Minister, Minister of International Trade, and Minister of Foreign Affairs, that many Canadians are extremely concerned about Trump’s fascism and Trumps determination to speed up climate change, and would prefer that Trudeau and his negotiating team take a firm stance with Trump even if basic humanity comes at a cost to trade with the USA. Another of the purposes of protesting the USA embassy and consulates is to obtain mass media coverage that will inform even more Canadians of what is going on south of the border, such that even further meetings with and calls, petitions and messages to Members of Parliament will be made. Note that neither of these purposes have anything to do with Trump not giving a fig about protesters, let alone Foreignlandia protesters, but instead have everything to do with providing Canada’s Ministers and negotiating team with a feel for what Canadians want from negotiations with Trump where there may very well be a loss of international trade and cooperation on cross-border issues for human decency. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/45 "2017-02-01T08:50:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I didn’t know that Canadians ever said, “Motherfucker”. > I am sorely disappointed. ☹ Strictly speaking, it’s “motherfucker, eh!” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/46 "2017-02-01T09:02:08Z")
Good point **Muffin** , people didn’t protest in front of the Soviet embassy because they thought they could sway Brezhnev, they did it to raise awareness in their own country and to put their own government on notice that this was important to them. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/47 "2017-02-01T10:12:08Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Strictly speaking, it’s “motherfucker, eh!” As my born-and-bred Canadian Dad once said, If a guy pushes you, you say “Excuse me.” If the same guy pushes you again, you say, “Sorry?” If the same guy pushes you again, you say, “Okay motherfucker, you’re going down.” Then you take him down. Happens all the time in Canada’s bars. Yeah, I’ve been there, done that. Not proud of it. Too old for that kind of garbage now. (Notice, **Nava** , that no “ehs” were involved. :)) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/48 "2017-02-01T13:23:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Strictly speaking, it’s “motherfucker, eh!” Thanks, now I feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/49 "2017-02-01T16:33:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Rest assured that I’m not disappointed in you. Just between you and me, I’ve never had any expectations of you. Therefore, it would be impossible to be disappointed. Let’s knock it off, please. Posting things like this isn’t a far cry from just trying to get them riled, which we have another name for here and it’s against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/50 "2017-02-01T21:08:36Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > No. We have responsible government in a [full democrac](http://www.eiu.com/Handlers/WhitepaperHandler.ashx?fi=Democracy-Index-2016.pdf&mode=wp&campaignid=DemocracyIndex2016)y, and all of our adult citizens have the vote, unlike the USA which is a [flawed democracy](http://www.eiu.com/Handlers/WhitepaperHandler.ashx?fi=Democracy-Index-2016.pdf&mode=wp&campaignid=DemocracyIndex2016) where its Constitution’s articles I and II prevent this. (post shortened) That was very well written, **Muffin** ol’ buddy. It’s nice to hear how other governments function. I especially liked the “flawed democracy” part. From your linked article - \*Democracy Index 2016 highlights - A trust deficit causes the US to become a “flawed democracy” Trust in political institutions is an essential component of well-functioning democracies. Yet surveys by Pew, Gallup and other polling agencies have confirmed that public confidence in government has slumped to historic lows in the US. This has had a corrosive effect on the quality of democracy in the US, as reflected in the decline in the US score in the Democracy Index. The US president, Donald Trump, is not to blame for this decline in trust, which predated his election, but he was the beneficiary of it. Popular confidence in political institutions and parties continues to decline in many other developed countries, too.\* Apparently, it’s the peoples lack of faith in the U.S. government which led to this “flawed democracy” classification. I guess Obama couldn’t reverse that trend? And Hillary couldn’t take advantage of the people’s lack of faith in the governent-as-usual, because she represented the status quo. Meanwhile: _In the matter at hand, a fascist is living in the White House. After many months of denigrating Muslims, one of his first acts as President was to strike a hateful and needless blow to innocent Muslims by way of a travel ban, which further promoted hatred of them by vilifying them. The day after Trump’s Muslim ban, a French-Canadian nationalist murdered six Muslims at prayer, and severely injured many more, which Trump used as excuse for justifying his Muslim travel ban, further promoting hatred against perfectly innocent Muslims, and empowering acts of hatred against them, as tragically evinced by a Quebecois troll turned terrorist._ How did Trump justify the Muslim travel ban by citing an event that had taken place AFTER travel to the U.S. was curtailed from seven (7) specific countries? It was the Obama administration who originally targeted these seven (7) specific nations. Is that Trump’s fault, also? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/51 "2017-02-01T21:31:15Z")
Correct, the USA was a flawed democracy before Trump. Now it is something far worse – a flawed democracy led by a fascist. How did Trump justify his attack on Muslims? Watch the start of Spicer’s press briefing the next morning. Listen-to-the-words-that-come-out-of-his-m-o-u-t-h. Words like p-r-o-a-c-t-i-v-e. In short, do your homework. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/52 "2017-02-01T22:15:04Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > How did Trump justify the Muslim travel ban by citing an event that had taken place AFTER travel to the U.S. was curtailed from seven (7) specific countries? It was the Obama administration who originally targeted these seven (7) specific nations. Is that Trump’s fault, also? Those questions demonstrate an astounding lack of factual knowledge about these events. You really need to keep up with the news and find out what’s going on in the world. The day after the Quebec shootings, Trump’s official Designated Liar, Sean Spicer – the same guy who had lied about how yuuuge the crowds were at his boss’s inauguration – [tried to use the Quebec shooting as justification for the Muslim ban](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/white-house-spicer-que-mosque-comments-1.3959338). The story was widely covered because of the deep irony of such a claim, since the suspect in the shooting was a white supremacist and Islamophobe aligned with the alt-right just like Trump’s most rabid supporters, and was a big Trump fan himself. And Obama didn’t “target” those seven nations. Those were the countries that were exceptions to the visa waiver program, nothing more. It was Trump who named those countries as the targets of a shocking and hateful travel and immigration ban, with the clear aim of banning Muslims from the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/53 "2017-02-01T22:36:28Z")
I’m just chipping in to comment on the awesomeness that was Muffin’s post #30 in this thread. Well said good sir, well said. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/54 "2017-02-01T22:47:00Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Correct, the USA was a flawed democracy before Trump. Now it is something far worse – a flawed democracy led by a fascist. > > How did Trump justify his attack on Muslims? Watch the start of Spicer’s press briefing the next morning. Listen-to-the-words-that-come-out-of-his-m-o-u-t-h. Words like p-r-o-a-c-t-i-v-e. In short, do your homework. (underline added) Attack on Muslims? Or a travel ban from seven nations until there is a better vetting process in place? Your choice. The EO is an attempt to proactively prevent terrorist attacks in the U.S… The actions of some nutcase in Canada had nothing to do with the issuing the EO. The EO was issued BEFORE some Canadian chose to murder people in a mosque. Protests in Canada are for the benefit of Canadians. You can enjoy them, ignore them, or condemn them. Your choice. How much weight should the government of the U.S.A. give to these Canadian protests? How much weight should the voters in the U.S.A. give to these Canadian protests? I suggest that the answer to both questions should be zero. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/55 "2017-02-02T00:09:07Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > No, but it also seems unreasonable to expect people to travel to DC to protest. The embassy and consulates represent the US in foreign countries, so that is the place to register disagreement… I wonder how long until the protest move aware from US diplomatic missions to any building with Trump’s name on it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/56 "2017-02-06T06:11:52Z")
February 12: [Hundreds Will Brave Cold To Moon Trump Tower in Chicago #RumpagainstTrump battle cry: “Kiss our asses, release your taxes.”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hundreds-will-brave-cold-to-moon-trump-tower-in-chicago_us_589408cfe4b04061313633e0) ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/57 "2017-02-06T06:59:55Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > February 12: > > [Hundreds Will Brave Cold To Moon Trump Tower in Chicago > #RumpagainstTrump battle cry: “Kiss our asses, release your taxes.”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hundreds-will-brave-cold-to-moon-trump-tower-in-chicago_us_589408cfe4b04061313633e0) OK, that made me laugh. > [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Attack on Muslims? Or a travel ban from seven nations until there is a better vetting process in place? Your choice. . . . . Do you think the Donald had any idea what the state of vetting was? No. And he hasn’t checked since, either. He also has no specific plans for what to add to the vetting. The other guy’s vetting was horrible, because Don said so. And his vetting will be extreme (repeated for emphasis), also because he said so. I feel so much safer. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/58 "2017-02-06T07:03:29Z")
Looking at the article Muffin linked, it is scary to realize that US citizens trust their government less than those of a country which needed to hold additional elections because our bloody politicians were too busy wanking to actually form a government. Spain almost needed a third round of national elections, last year. But if we look at it in terms of “whole government” and not only at the higher levels, I think the US is a country which has a much more antagonistic relationship between Joe Smith on the street and the lower levels of government (cops, laws, lawyers, city hall…), and vice versa, than most of the other democracies. So yeah, maybe at the level of national and regional governments US citizens and Spanish citizens trust our government as much which isn’t much, but at the lower levels there has long been a large difference. In what other countries do people get instructions about “how to behave if a cop stops your car” which include “do not move or make any gestures you haven’t been ordered to do”? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/59 "2017-02-07T00:03:45Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In what other countries do people get instructions about “how to behave if a cop stops your car” which include “do not move or make any gestures you haven’t been ordered to do”? I believe that comes from over imaginative posters on the 'Dope, although if I were a person of color I would do my best not to anger a policeman. Come to think of it as a White Guy, I wouldn’t annoy anyone I deal with. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593/60 "2017-02-07T06:33:58Z")
On the subject of teaching people how to behave during a traffic stop: I was the Novosibirsk based manager of a program that administered academic exchanges between the US and Russia. One of our training topics was how to deal with the police. In Russia you get out of the car and stand next to it when you get pulled over, if you did that in the US you could get shot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protests-in-canada-shut-down-us-consulate-in-toronto-and-maybe-embassy-in-ottawa/778593.md?page=4)