# Protocol question **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248 "2005-03-19T01:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/181 "2005-03-19T05:50:45Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > I answered this already, quite verbosely, but I’ll do it again, OK? > > But the deal is - you cant accuse me of not answering, nor can you ask me another question, until we both agree I’ve answered this, OK? Ok, with the caveat that you show me where you have “answered this quite verbosely”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/182 "2005-03-19T05:52:42Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So do people who fraudently get married, so what? But the two states aren’t the same. Certain conditions have to be met to form a a marriage and it is not necessary for any of these conditions to change in order to dissolve a marriage. A fraudulent marriage (for the purposes of gaining citizenship, for example) can be exposed if it’s clear there is no intent to consummate the marriage. But if a married couple stops having sex, the marriage is not automatically dissolved. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/183 "2005-03-19T05:53:46Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] They wouldn’t be “pretending” to be divorced-there would be a real, legal, lawful divorce. They would simply continue LIVING TOGETHER. Because the _intent_ is fraud. They’re trying to gain benefits, through fraud. How is this so difficult to understand? Or is it OK, because they reaeealy, reaeelay need the benefits? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/184 "2005-03-19T05:57:01Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > FUCK EVIDENCE! Wait, you’re going to FUCK evidence after ignoring it all this time? Well, I guess evidence, like women, will have sex with bad boys who treat them like dirt. Heh. GFA. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/185 "2005-03-19T05:58:17Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Ok, with the caveat that you show me where you have “answered this quite verbosely”. Post 77 specifically. But anything above that as well, although you will have to sort through all the pack rat crap before it can be brought to trial. Now, in my next post, I will answer, again. And then I will ask you if I answered to your satisfaction, and then it will be my turn to ask you, and so on, and so forth. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/186 "2005-03-19T06:03:11Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Because the _intent_ is fraud. They’re trying to gain benefits, through fraud. How is this so difficult to understand? Or is it OK, because they reaeealy, reaeelay need the benefits? Where is the fraud? They’d be taking real penalties, too. She’d no longer be his legal next-of-kin, for example. You think that’s nothing important? You know how many rights she’s considering giving up? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/187 "2005-03-19T06:03:15Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Because the _intent_ is fraud. They’re trying to gain benefits, through fraud. How is this so difficult to understand? Or is it OK, because they reaeealy, reaeelay need the benefits? Yes, they are trying to gain benefits. You have yet to demonstrate that the procedure they are using constitutes fraud. It may surprise you to know this, but neither the federal government nor the State of California define fraud based on the “ **milroyj** says so” test. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/188 "2005-03-19T06:03:20Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Because the _intent_ is fraud. They’re trying to gain benefits, through fraud. How is this so difficult to understand? Or is it OK, because they reaeealy, reaeelay need the benefits? The intent is irrelevent. If they live in a no-fault state, they can get a divorce simply by asking for one. If this creates a condition through which the husband can apply for increased benefits, well, that’s just how the system is set up. Is it wrong to change one’s living situatation in order to reap a benefit? I suppose the _intent_ to get breast implants is fraudulent if you reaeealy, reaeelay need that job as a porn star. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/189 "2005-03-19T06:03:48Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > FUCK EVIDENCE! > > IS LYING RIGHT, OR IS IT WRONG, COUNSELLOR?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!? I don’t know about this, but I will tell you what IS wrong. Registering to a message board, and wasting your life making 60 posts a day just to inflame a bunch of strangers in circular arguments on the intarweb is what’s wrong. Get your hand out of your pants, stop jacking off to your moral superiority and how you got them thar blue-state liberals all worked up to a tizzy, and get a life. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/190 "2005-03-19T06:07:52Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Post 77 specifically. > > But anything above that as well, although you will have to sort through all the pack rat crap before it can be brought to trial. > > Now, in my next post, I will answer, again. > > And then I will ask you if I answered to your satisfaction, and then it will be my turn to ask you, and so on, and so forth. > > Agreed? This was my question \*If you had a mother that loved you, and I threatened to torture her and then kill her ( a threat that you had every reason to believe was legitimate) unless you lied to the Girl Scouts at the door and said you wanted three boxes of cookies when you only wanted two, would lying be a BAD IDEA? \* This was your answer in post #77 \*If it’s her time to go, I’d let her die. If it was not her time to die, there are any number of options I could pursue to get her the help she needs; none of them involve stealing from the government. If I ran to the end of the road, and my my mother was still not cured, then it’s time for her to die. You seem to think that just because life CAN be preserved it SHOULD be. Not so, my friend. One has their allotted time in the sun, and then the torch passes to the next set. Get over it. You WILL die.\* This is not answering the question “quite verbosely”. This is avoiding the question. The question had nothing to do with “her time to die” or “being cured”. It simply asked whether you would lie to prevent someone from torturing and murdering your mother. Would you? ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/191 "2005-03-19T06:09:20Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > I don’t know about this, but I will tell you what IS wrong. > > Registering to a message board, and wasting your life making 60 posts a day just to inflame a bunch of strangers in circular arguments on the intarweb is what’s wrong. > > Get your hand out of your pants, stop jacking off to your moral superiority and how you got them thar blue-state liberals all worked up to a tizzy, and get a life. And now - I’ll tell you whats funny about this, flea brain! As a guest, I can’t see my post count. As a human, I don’t give a FLYING FUCK about my post count. Assholes like you obviously place a great stake in post counts, and feel threatened by the post count of others - even those who don’t know or care what their fucking post count is. Otherwise you wouldn’t be a member. So fuck off, you fucking clueless dipshit genetics experiment gone horribly wrong. Fucking idiot. Go suck Bryan’s cock. You two seem to have mutual interests. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/192 "2005-03-19T06:10:45Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > Get your hand out of your pants, stop jacking off to your moral superiority and how you got them thar blue-state liberals all worked up to a tizzy, and get a life. Pfft. I’m not a blue-state liberal. I’m a Canadian socialist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/193 "2005-03-19T06:14:12Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Where is the fraud? They’d be taking real penalties, too. She’d no longer be his legal next-of-kin, for example. You think that’s nothing important? You know how many rights she’s considering giving up? That’s an interesting angle, considering the husband’s health problems. Can the husband specify his future-ex-wife as authorized to make medical decisions in a living will, or give her power-of-attorney, or some other means? At the very least, the notion of divorce requires careful consideration of who would become the default next-of-kin. Does the couple have any adult chilren, or does the husband have living parents or siblings? Tough decision, if the husband’s condition worsens and a conflict develops between the future-ex-wife and the legal NOK. I suppose the simplest condition is if the husband is an only-child orphan with no kids of his own. If he has all the necessary living-will documents naming his ex-wife and there’s no-one closer than a cousin to contest it, would a hospital give her a hard time? I am somewhat curious about this issue, since it’s come up a lot in the gay marriage threads, but it may be beyond the scope of this one, and the well-deserved bashing the great flaming asshole OP has understandable priority. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/194 "2005-03-19T06:14:40Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > And now - I’ll tell you whats funny about this, flea brain! > > Assholes like you obviously place a great stake in post counts, and feel threatened by the post count of others - even those who don’t know or care what their fucking post count is. I don’t give a flying fork in a rolling donut about your god-damn post count. I think anyone that registers on a messageboard and makes almost 150 posts in _two days_ just to bait people is a fucking loser with no life. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/195 "2005-03-19T06:15:24Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This was my question > > \*If you had a mother that loved you, and I threatened to torture her and then kill her ( a threat that you had every reason to believe was legitimate) unless you lied to the Girl Scouts at the door and said you wanted three boxes of cookies when you only wanted two, would lying be a BAD IDEA? \* > > This was your answer in post #77 > > \*If it’s her time to go, I’d let her die. > > If it was not her time to die, there are any number of options I could pursue to get her the help she needs; none of them involve stealing from the government. > > If I ran to the end of the road, and my my mother was still not cured, then it’s time for her to die. > > You seem to think that just because life CAN be preserved it SHOULD be. > > Not so, my friend. One has their allotted time in the sun, and then the torch passes to the next set. > > Get over it. > > You WILL die.\* > This is not answering the question “quite verbosely”. This is avoiding the question. The question had nothing to do with “her time to die” or “being cured”. It simply asked whether you would lie to prevent someone from torturing and murdering your mother. Would you? I’ll take that as a yes. OK, here we go: TO answer your question… The question was: And here it comes, Are you ready? It’s coming! Soon! And now… 3 2 1 The question was: (Quotated) (n the midde of the page) (double spaced) (Away from everything else on the page) (Read the following question) **If lying is always a BAD IDEA (your words) is it a bad idea to lie in order to prevent a loved one from suffering horribly and dying BEFORE HER TIME (your words)?** I mean, I mean, You got a lot of damn gall to ask me that question. I’m sitting here, I’m just sitting here on the group W bench… Ok, and now the answer, although I’ve stated it at least 50 times tonight, lets go for 51, shall we? Ok THEN! HERE WE GO! The BIG ANSWER! \*\* YES ITS FUCKING WRONG TO LIE TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU LOVE EVEN YOUR FUCKING MOTHER.\*\* Now, may I ask a question of you? ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/196 "2005-03-19T06:16:40Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > I don’t give a flying fork in a rolling donut about your god-damn post count. > > I think anyone that registers on a messageboard and makes almost 150 posts in _two days_ just to bait people is a fucking loser with no life. And what does that make you, monsieur? Fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/197 "2005-03-19T06:17:04Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > \*\* > YES ITS FUCKING WRONG TO LIE TO SAVE SOMEONE YOU LOVE EVEN YOUR FUCKING MOTHER.\*\* No it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/198 "2005-03-19T06:17:59Z")
> [@jinwicked](#): > > No it’s not. Is. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/199 "2005-03-19T06:18:33Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > And what does that make you, monsieur? > > Fucking idiot. Apparently, it makes me a man. Dumbass. How’s your mom’s basement working out for you there, you little music theif? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/200 "2005-03-19T06:19:29Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Now, may I ask a question of you? Yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248.md?page=11)