# Protocol question **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248 "2005-03-19T01:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/241 "2005-03-19T06:55:34Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > YOU FUCKING MORON! > > You quoted my fucking question youself! > Once again…Read twice…POST 218. I did, about 20 minutes ago. Whats the question? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/242 "2005-03-19T06:57:03Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > YOU FUCKING MORON! > > You quoted my fucking question youself! > Once again…Read twice…POST 218. Calm yourself, rol. It’s not his fault. His last brain cell just dropped its glasses. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/243 "2005-03-19T06:57:46Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Calm yourself, rol. It’s not his fault. His last brain cell just dropped its glasses. Welcome back, Bryan! Need some more attention, do we? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/244 "2005-03-19T06:58:49Z")
I have a couple of questions here, sorry if they seem simple or insensitive… Isn’t it against SDMB policy to solicit or provide information about how to break the law? Wasn’t the woman soliciting information on how to defraud the government (an illegal act) by fraudulently divorcing her husband so that he can draw government benefits? I sympathize with the woman’s plight, but are SDMB rules suspended when accompanied by a sob story? Is a violation of the rules nullified by the fact that the violation was pointed out by a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/245 "2005-03-19T06:59:08Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Why is it OK to lie? Oops, simulpost. **Bryan** , I got this. Generally speaking, lying is not OK. The search for the truth is an honorable goal, and in most cases, the truth will set you free. Or at least it will free you to make an informed decision. Your question, as posed, is incoherent, because it it allows contradictory answers. (See mothers, torture, the subsequent horrible death thereof). It may be more properly posed as “When is it OK to lie?” Is that what you meant to ask? Because those of us who love our mothers (in my case, OG rest her soul) think it is OK, at the very least, to lie to save them. You may well argue that this is simply selfish. You would have a point. Who among us would wilfully consign \*she who bore \* us to a moldy grave simply to support a dubious point of logic? (present company excluded). Where would we get our cookies and milk? Who would send us Valentines on those off years when we are otherwise unencumbered? We humans are a selfish lot and I admire you in your steadfast stand against the tide. But where was I. Oh yes. It is OK to lie because my grandmother, in her infinite wisdom, said so. In these words. “Son, whenever anyone asks you a personal question, it is your perogative to lie.” You ain’t gonna start any shit about my grandmother, now are ya? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/246 "2005-03-19T06:59:23Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Its funny how you depend on the law to tell you what is right and what is wrong. I don’t rely on the law to tell me what is right and what is wrong; i rely on the law to tell me what is legal and what is illegal. I fully believe that some things that are legal are also morally wrong; and i believe that some things that are illegal are also morally right. > [@mattmorgan64](#): > > You say a number of states have no fault laws, and therefore you don’t need a reason to get divorced, or even to tell the truth about why you are getting divorced. Don’t put words into my mouth, liar. I never said that you don’t need to tell the truth about why you are getting divorced. What i said was that you don’t need a reason. > [@mattmorgan64](#): > > In essence, arguing the state is right in saying that it’s valid to have no reason to get divorced. For the first time in this whole thread, you are absolutely correct. I am, in fact, “arguing that the state is right in saying that it’s valid to have no reason to get divorced.” I firmly believe that two married people, two consenting adults, should be able to get a divorce for any reason they damn well please. > [@mattmorgan64](#): > > In any other thread you would likely whine that the state is oppressing you because it doen’t allow gay marriage. Yes, i would. Just like i would whine if the state reverted to some archaic divorce law that required abandonment or spousal abuse or adultery before allowing a divorce. You seem to think that no-fault divorce is some sort of state oppression, but no-fault divorce is actually the result of the state _removing_ many previous state-sanctioned barriers to divorce. Your analogies and comparisons have no logical consistency whatsoever. And you’re a fucking twit. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/247 "2005-03-19T07:00:43Z")
> [@NattoGuy](#): > > I have a couple of questions here, sorry if they seem simple or insensitive… > > Isn’t it against SDMB policy to solicit or provide information about how to break the law? > > Wasn’t the woman soliciting information on how to defraud the government (an illegal act) by fraudulently divorcing her husband so that he can draw government benefits? > > I sympathize with the woman’s plight, but are SDMB rules suspended when accompanied by a sob story? Is a violation of the rules nullified by the fact that the violation was pointed out by a jerk? QUite the moral dilemna for you , isn’t it? You know the question was wring, you know I AM right, but you dont want to alienate the crowd. Best bet is for you to crawl back in your shell and just keep you pussy ass mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/248 "2005-03-19T07:01:39Z")
This FUCKWAD doesnt want to answer the question because he knows it will fuck up his entire argument. Not that he had one anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/249 "2005-03-19T07:02:30Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Oops, simulpost. **Bryan** , I got this. > > Generally speaking, lying is not OK. The search for the truth is an honorable goal, and in most cases, the truth will set you free. Or at least it will free you to make an informed decision. Your question, as posed, is incoherent, because it it allows contradictory answers. (See mothers, torture, the subsequent horrible death thereof). It may be more properly posed as “When is it OK to lie?” Is that what you meant to ask? Because those of us who love our mothers (in my case, OG rest her soul) think it is OK, at the very least, to lie to save them. You may well argue that this is simply selfish. You would have a point. Who among us would wilfully consign \*she who bore \* us to a moldy grave simply to support a dubious point of logic? (present company excluded). Where would we get our cookies and milk? Who would send us Valentines on those off years when we are otherwise unencumbered? We humans are a selfish lot and I admire you in your steadfast stand against the tide. But where was I. Oh yes. It is OK to lie because my grandmother, in her infinite wisdom, said so. In these words. > “Son, whenever anyone asks you a personal question, it is your perogative to lie.” > > You ain’t gonna start any shit about my grandmother, now are ya? I can respect that. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/250 "2005-03-19T07:02:39Z")
> [@NattoGuy](#): > > Wasn’t the woman soliciting information on how to defraud the government (an illegal act) by fraudulently divorcing her husband so that he can draw government benefits? Well, see, here’s the nub of the whole issue. No-one has yet demonstrated, despite repeated requests by me and other posters, that the information being requested did, in fact, constitute fraud. No-one has yet demonstrated that this would be a “fraudulent” divorce, or that it would break any state or federal laws. If you can demonstrate that it does, in fact, constitute fraud, i’ll be happy to agree that it probably broke the Board rules. But so far, the only “evidence” we’ve seen is random assertions. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/251 "2005-03-19T07:03:44Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > This FUCKWAD doesnt want to answer the question because he knows it will fuck up his entire argument. > Not that he had one anyway. I’ve asked you 3 times to tell me what question you want answered. Can you just trouble me to go ahead and ask it? Please? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/252 "2005-03-19T07:04:18Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > No one has told me why it’s OK to lie. Because the value of a human life and caring for a loved one is more important than lying to the state, you stupid fuck. Wanna know why? Because without human life (and consciousness), there would be no such thing as a lie! Do animals lie? No! It’s a human concept. Goddamn, are you a fucking moronic pile of ass. Even if none of the preceding makes any sense to you, surely you don’t value the truth over human happiness or you wouldn’t steal fucking songs for your own pleasure! It’s like talking to a sea cow. Please, enlighten us as to how you rationalize this. Ever heard of cognitive dissonance? Stop being such a pollyanna-ish dick. You lie daily, just like the rest of us, unless you’re a robot, which I’m beginning to think might be the case. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/253 "2005-03-19T07:04:45Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I don’t rely on the law to tell me what is right and what is wrong; i rely on the law to tell me what is legal and what is illegal. > > I fully believe that some things that are legal are also morally wrong; and i believe that some things that are illegal are also morally right. > Don’t put words into my mouth, liar. I never said that you don’t need to tell the truth about why you are getting divorced. What i said was that you don’t need a reason.For the first time in this whole thread, you are absolutely correct. > > I am, in fact, “arguing that the state is right in saying that it’s valid to have no reason to get divorced.” I firmly believe that two married people, two consenting adults, should be able to get a divorce for any reason they damn well please. Yes, i would. Just like i would whine if the state reverted to some archaic divorce law that required abandonment or spousal abuse or adultery before allowing a divorce. > > You seem to think that no-fault divorce is some sort of state oppression, but no-fault divorce is actually the result of the state _removing_ many previous state-sanctioned barriers to divorce. > > Your analogies and comparisons have no logical consistency whatsoever. > > And you’re a fucking twit. So noted, Menudo. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/254 "2005-03-19T07:04:51Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Welcome back, Bryan! > > Need some more attention, do we? From you? Nah. I come here for the opportunity to read the insults of others and use them as springboards for own witticisms, which hopefully inspires the other readers to even greater aspirations. It’s Straight Dope Synergy at its finest, and you’re today’s catalyst. It’s quite likely the most noble role you’ll ever play, so take pride in it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/255 "2005-03-19T07:04:53Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > No one has told me why it’s OK to lie. In Mark Twain’s _Autobiography_, he tells of a situation in which one of his daughters and his wife became very sick at the same time. Each one was sometimes only inches from death during their sicknesses. It would have done Mrs. Clemens no good to know that her daughter was on death’s doorstep— she would have worried about her daughter rather than herself, and could have wasted away. Ditto for the daughter knowing about her mother. Thus, Twain and the doctor lied to them, telling each that the other was perfectly fine and sometimes coming up with eleaborate tales of what they had done during the day. If one of them had died during this time, I have little doubt that Twain would have continued to lie in order to spare the other the horrible shock until such time as she could take it. These events most likely inspired Twain’s moralizing short story [Was it Heaven? Or Hell?](http://www.online-literature.com/twain/324/), which describes a similar situation. It’s not always okay to lie. But sometimes it is not only okay, but the only moral thing to do. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/256 "2005-03-19T07:08:06Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > I’ve asked you 3 times to tell me what question you want answered. > > Can you just trouble me to go ahead and ask it? > > Please? Is it okay to steal music? Is it okay to steal a loaf of bread for a starving child? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/257 "2005-03-19T07:09:19Z")
> [@mattmorgan64](#): > > Yes, I know my parents so wished I would have grown up to be someone who waxed poetic about their days in woodstock and how groovy everything was. > > I’m so happy your life turned out so perfectly. > > Fuck off and get back to your fantasy of living in a commune, you fucking skag. Right. I guess puns don’t register with people as simple-minded as you. My username’s a play on “Snoop Doggy Dog”, you fucking jizz rag; it has nothing to do with hippies. You think I’m a pacifist commune type? COme on over and allow me to disabuse you of that notion by . . . (wait for it) . . . Slapping my _balls across your nose, bitch_! ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/258 "2005-03-19T07:10:33Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Because the value of a human life and caring for a loved one is more important than lying to the state, you stupid fuck. Wanna know why? Because without human life (and consciousness), there would be no such thing as a lie! Do animals lie? No! It’s a human concept. Goddamn, are you a fucking moronic pile of ass. Even if none of the preceding makes any sense to you, surely you don’t value the truth over human happiness or you wouldn’t steal fucking songs for your own pleasure! It’s like talking to a sea cow. Please, enlighten us as to how you rationalize this. Ever heard of cognitive dissonance? Stop being such a pollyanna-ish dick. You lie daily, just like the rest of us, unless you’re a robot, which I’m beginning to think might be the case. Oh, Woody, you are truly a piece of work. Hmmmm wait… putting on some iron butterfly… wait…hmmmm… OK. Inna Gadda Da Vida Baby… OK, Minds right now, boss. Promise I wont go sawing off no parking meters now. Now, you jaded, worthless, leftover hippie who never had a clue, never had the common sense to jump to the next decade, and never had any friends or family who would help you make the jump: What the FUCK does cognitive dissonance (your misspelling of a topic you know NOTHING ABOUT, included) Have to do with, as you hippies used to say, the price of rice in china? Now don’t mess with my groove baby. I gotta get back to the human thing and animals and peace signs and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/259 "2005-03-19T07:11:50Z")
Answer the question. pussy. ---
**Author:** ![mattmorgan64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@mattmorgan64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattmorgan64)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248/260 "2005-03-19T07:12:10Z")
> [@rolandgunslinger](#): > > Is it okay to steal music? > > Is it okay to steal a loaf of bread for a starving child? FINALLY! **Is it OK to steal Music?** No, it’s wrong, and those who can be caught should be punished. \*\* Is it okay to steal a loaf of bread for a starving child?\*\* No, it’s wrong, and those who can be caught should be punished. Next? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/protocol-question/295248.md?page=14)