# Proud to be an American? (the song) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837 "2004-10-12T16:53:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/41 "2004-10-13T06:14:55Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Maybe it’s the undercurrent of nationalism that song seems to evoke. **Shibb** , can you explain what you mean by that? Is a sense of nationalism wrong? Is it wrong to be taught in school? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/42 "2004-10-13T06:36:03Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > The part that steams my ankles is, “…at least I know I’m free.” That sets a sheepish tone. “Hey, we’re not so bad, at least I know I’m free.” …as well as implying that the poor schlubs living elsewhere on the planet _don’t_ know they’re free. :rolleyes: This frickin’ song is the audio equivalent of the Ugly American. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/43 "2004-10-13T06:46:08Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > The part that steams my ankles is, “…at least I know I’m free.” That sets a sheepish tone. “Hey, we’re not so bad, at least I know I’m free.” As I said in my speech final a year and a half ago: “Lee Greenwood may know he’s free, but for [several million] Americans, that simply isn’t the case.” [sub]Hope that wasn’t GD territory…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/44 "2004-10-13T07:04:00Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > I always thought one thing public schools at least touched on was citizenship. In that context, I could see the value of such a song. (Not necessarily _that_ particular song, but something of that type) > > For quite a while it seems like many people on this board have a knee-jerk reaction to anything they find overly patriotic. I know one reason is because some people have patriotism shoved in their face, and get viewed as being ‘un-patriotic’ if they don’t buy into it. I can understand this feeling- its not unlike prostelytizing (sp?). However, quite a few of you have kind of gone so far that I can’t help but imagine that you rupture one capillary every time you see an American flag, or hear anything remotely in praise of something about the United States. > > Being proud to be an American doesn’t infer some veiled threat to anyone that doesn’t follow that creed. If you don’t dig it, fine, but if you cast the same level of bias as the people you hate, then you’re no better than they are. Hear, hear. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/45 "2004-10-13T07:53:47Z")
I understand your revulsion to the song perfectly, and you are not alone. I can’t quite explain it, but… In his new book, _In the Shadow of No Towers_, Art Spiegelman writes about how, not long after 9/11, he found himself in Indiana, saw some doorway adorned with American flag bunting, and he knew exactly how Vampires felt about garlic. That’s exactly how I feel about Lee Greenwood. There are worse songs out there, though, like “Have You Forgotten?” The songwriter is apparently inder the impression that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are the same person. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/46 "2004-10-13T07:59:17Z")
**Incubus** , JFTR, I have no beef whatsoever with intelligent, informed etc. patriotism. It’s mindless “Let’s do this because we always have” or “Let’s do this because it’s good to be patriotic” or “Let’s do this because it sounds good” stuff that gets on my nerves. I also have no problem with people who are proud to be American; what irritates me are the ones who’re mindless sheep about it: “Why are you proud to be American?” “Because it’s the greatest country on Earth.” No doubt a heartfelt reply, but has the intellectual weight of a cotton swab. I personally derive more from an essay detailing people who have embraced American ideals much moreso than what I derive from someone singing the national anthem or teaching a bunch of kids to sing something they likely haven’t thought about much (I’d rather not try to count the number of times I recited the Pledge of Allegiance before I actually stopped to think about what I was actually saying). I’d think it would be more pertinent to instilling in children a sense of citizenship, national pride etc. for them to talk about things that they can do (or don’t have to do, or whatever) because of where they live, and have them actually _learn_ what the good stuff is about this country. It would also take more work, which can certainly be a deciding factor. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/47 "2004-10-13T09:41:16Z")
**kalex** , **AskNott** and **iampunha** touched on it a bit, but that first line of the chorus _And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free._ just seems to me to be finding joy in ignorance. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Standing up and fighting when you’re called on is all well and good, but what about the responsibilty to identify the threats to freedom and to participate in its responsibilities? The song rubs me the wrong way because it celebrates freedom as something to fall back on, while content to let other people do the real work of deciding how, where and why it exists. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/48 "2004-10-13T10:09:13Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > . . . . I have met many a immigrant that was very proud to now be an American. More power to 'em to wave the flag and sing all the patriotic songs they like…[/size] Then we’re in violent agreement here. People who chose to come here can take pride in their decision, determination, and overall excellent judgement. Those of us who were born here should be a little more circumspect about what we choose to be proud about; there’s really no personal accomplishment in winning the lottery. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/49 "2004-10-13T10:37:20Z")
Do I move a thread about a political song to Cafe Society or Great Debates? I flip the mental coin aaaaannnddd…the damn thing rolls into the heater duct. Well, since no one from Cafe Society has pitted me recently, I think I’ll move it there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Poonther](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Poonther](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poonther)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/50 "2004-10-13T12:52:02Z")
Wow, I am the only American that has NOT heard this song before? Man it is awful and sappy and I’m not even sure how it really sounds. I don’t listen to local radio stations and definitely not to country stations so that must be how I missed it. I’m with **Shibb** on this one, I don’t like the fact that school children are singing it, but I’m not totally sure why I feel that way. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s being sung by school children in Central Florida. The I-4 corridor is being the Republican belt of Florida and Tampa’s neighbor Orlando is becoming fundie headquarters. And I definitely agree with **Genghis Bob** and his “hitting the lottery” statement. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/51 "2004-10-13T14:16:20Z")
Why do I hate this song so much? 1. I’ve probably heard it 1000 times since Sept. 11. 2. I don’t care at all for Lee Greenwood, Charlie Daniels, Toby Keith and their like. I’m sick of the, “My country right or wrong…blah blah ultra-patriotism…” stuff that I tend to associate with the Bush campaign. 3. A bunch of school kids singing this song? Just please no… Sometimes I like to express shock at scenes like this that I see from North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Pepi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pepi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pepi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/52 "2004-10-13T14:23:20Z")
I don’t hate the song, but one line in particular bugs me. “And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.” The men who died didn’t “give” the right to be free. They defended it; I honor that. But as Thomas Jefferson pointed out, the right to be free does not come from any person, king or government. The right to be free comes from Nature. (Yes, I have watched 1776 too many times. And I’ll watch it again!) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/53 "2004-10-13T14:36:35Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > **Shibb** , can you explain what you mean by that? Is a sense of nationalism wrong? Is it wrong to be taught in school? To me, patriotism is equal to pride in one’s country. I am proud of the good things that America has done and which it still does. Even things that I’m not overly fond of (the war in Iraq, for example) I believe are usually done with good intentions, if not always by our leaders then by most people in the service. The men and women of the US military, by and large, are there to serve their country and to help others and are good people. I believe that. I get emotional when I hear _The Star Spangled Banner_ played at international sporting events, not because it’s a great song but because it reminds me of certain good things about my country. But to me, nationalism edges dangerously close to love of country without introspection. Whatever we do is right. Manifest Destiny. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are possible examples, where the ends are believed to justify the means, but instead erode the principles which our country was founded on. Germany in 1936 was in the grips of a strong nationalistic fervor, and some horrible people took advantage of that sentiment. So, no, IMO, nationalism should not be instilled in school. Some patriotism and pride in one’s country, what it has done and can do in the future are okay, as long as it is tempered by a clarity of responsibility, purpose and principles. Our leaders are human and fallible, so should be accountable to review, censure and control by the people that have elected them. When we give them _carte blanche_ and excuse them from criticism and review it is handing them a very dangerous power. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/54 "2004-10-13T14:57:16Z")
Every so often, another song pops up. Whether it is Greenwood, Keith, Daniels or somebody else. I have to wonder, if they really feel that strongly, why they never enlisted, why not put their money where their mouth is. It’s usually simplistic and jingoistic “feel good”, or “kill bad guys” material. Since all these people are capable of writing good music, all I can figure is, they are just cashing in on whatever happened recently. It’s pretty cynical of me, but there you are. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/55 "2004-10-13T16:01:07Z")
> [@Missy2U](#): > > **Shibb** , if it were me, I’d be pretty PO’d. For me, it’s the undercurrent of nationalism you mention that pushes my buttons - I think it’s inappropriate for school. Ridiculous. We’ve been saying the pledge of allegiance in US schools for decades. Schools are SUPPOSED to encourage a pride in your country. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/56 "2004-10-13T16:13:23Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > To me, patriotism is equal to pride in one’s country. I am proud of the good things that America has done and which it still does. Even things that I’m not overly fond of (the war in Iraq, for example) I believe are usually done with good intentions, if not always by our leaders then by most people in the service. The men and women of the US military, by and large, are there to serve their country and to help others and are good people. I believe that. I get emotional when I hear _The Star Spangled Banner_ played at international sporting events, not because it’s a great song but because it reminds me of certain good things about my country. > > But to me, nationalism edges dangerously close to love of country without introspection. Whatever we do is right. Manifest Destiny. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are possible examples, where the ends are believed to justify the means, but instead erode the principles which our country was founded on. Germany in 1936 was in the grips of a strong nationalistic fervor, and some horrible people took advantage of that sentiment. > > So, no, IMO, nationalism should not be instilled in school. Some patriotism and pride in one’s country, what it has done and can do in the future are okay, as long as it is tempered by a clarity of responsibility, purpose and principles. Our leaders are human and fallible, so should be accountable to review, censure and control by the people that have elected them. When we give them _carte blanche_ and excuse them from criticism and review it is handing them a very dangerous power. Thanks for your insightful reply. I was not making a distinction between “nationalism” and “patriotism” so I wasn’t understanding your position. I completely agree with your take on “nationalism”. Following any doctrine blindly is never a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/57 "2004-10-13T17:10:51Z")
Being “proud” of where you were born strikes me, as it does a some others in this thread, as odd. But it’s that “at least” thing that really gets me. “At least” is a phrase you use when things are pretty sucky, but not at their very worst. I’m proud to be an Ohioan where at least we don’t get hurricanes! I’m proud to be an Ohioan where at least we aren’t from Kentucky! I’m proud to be an Ohioan where at least we’ve never had a Governor Bush! Somehow, I don’t think that phrasing would win me any prizes for patriotic writing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/58 "2004-10-13T17:26:03Z")
That “at least” is funny when you think about it. It is like saying “We suck and we know it but you suck even worse”. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Poonther](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Poonther](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poonther)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/59 "2004-10-13T18:11:52Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m proud to be an Ohioan > where at least we don’t get hurricanes! > > I’m proud to be an Ohioan > where at least we’ve never had a Governor Bush! I wish oh how I wish I could say these two things especially the second one. Damn you **jsgoddess!!!** 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837/60 "2004-10-13T19:34:42Z")
Simple, it’s the audio equivalent of [glurge](http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp). I wouldn’t want my children singing it any more than I would want them reading _Chicken Soup for the Soul_ (involuntarily, that is). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/proud-to-be-an-american-the-song/268837.md?page=4)